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Old 09-01-2004, 06:55 AM   #46
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Originally posted by STING2


Has anyone given a speech or said something not in a speech that would make you want to re-elect George Bush, regardless of whether it was related to 9/11/Iraq or not?
wouldn't that be considered flip-flopping?
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Old 09-01-2004, 10:46 AM   #47
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Ahem, remember your Voltaire "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", the problem with politics is that too many people here hate those whose politics they disagree with, that goes for both Bush and Kerry bashers - they posess a psycopathical hatred that is totally illogical. Introduce some respect for others opinions and take enjoyment from the argument, it will lead to better discourse in your daily life and on the forum.
Hey, from one Voltaire fan to another--I agree 100%!! I don't like all of this hatred and vitriol. That's the thing I hate the most about election year. There seems to be more of this this year than there has been in recent campaign. Some article claimed that this is the most "charged" election since 1968. Yikes. That's scary.
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Old 09-01-2004, 12:06 PM   #48
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Ahem, remember your Voltaire "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", the problem with politics is that too many people here hate those whose politics they disagree with, that goes for both Bush and Kerry bashers - they posess a psycopathical hatred that is totally illogical. Introduce some respect for others opinions and take enjoyment from the argument, it will lead to better discourse in your daily life and on the forum.
Was this directed at me? Because defamation of family goes beyond politics, and I would never defend someone's "right" to defame my wife and child. That goes beyond any perceived "hatred" of either candidate.

And I hope you weren't calling me a psychopath.
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Old 09-01-2004, 06:24 PM   #49
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Originally posted by BostonAnne


What's your point STING2? The answer is no, but that doesn't mean that I don't try to have an open mind anyhow.
I would say that there was probably very little McCain could have said or done in his speech to convince you to vote for Bush. I'm sure you have an open mind, but I think most political strategist would consider you to far to the left to convince otherwise. The Convention and the speeches are designed to fire up the base and appeal to the independents and other voters in the middle. I admit, I'm not in the middle, an undecided, or an indendent in regards to this election. The only democratic candidate I would have even considered voting for was Joe Lieberman based on his views on the issues.
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Old 09-01-2004, 10:04 PM   #50
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When I complain about the rancor and vitriol in this campaign I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I'm talking about the whole thing, both sides. There's too much going on all over. This is a political election, not the Wars of the Roses. It's really depressing to me.
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:27 AM   #51
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No psycopath comment was in relation to those that hate without reason, they take it too far - choice of words was quite poor as I was actually thinking of pathological hatred.
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Old 09-02-2004, 10:35 AM   #52
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Originally posted by STING2
McCain is not a person that deals in "partial truths".
Apparenly John McCain couldn't disagree with you more.

"Our choice wasn't between a benign status quo and the bloodshed of war. It was between war and a graver threat. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Not our political opponents. And certainly not, certainly not, a disingenuous filmmaker who would have us believe that Saddam's Iraq was an oasis of peace, when in fact it was a place of indescribable cruelty, torture chambers, mass graves and prisons that destroyed the lives of the small children inside their walls."
--John McCain


Of course John never saw the movie, and of course Moore never claimed that Iraq was an "oasis of peace". Yes, I know it's just a tiny untruth, but still...

On a side note, I wonder how John was able to forgive Bush for the vicious personal attacks Bush used against him in the 2000 primaries.
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:03 PM   #53
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I believe McCain actually believes Iraq was a "graver" threat. Is that the untruth? I got thrown off with the quote.
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Old 09-02-2004, 07:15 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
wouldn't that be considered flip-flopping?
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Old 09-02-2004, 11:22 PM   #55
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Originally posted by cydewaze

Apparenly John McCain couldn't disagree with you more.

"Our choice wasn't between a benign status quo and the bloodshed of war. It was between war and a graver threat. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Not our political opponents. And certainly not, certainly not, a disingenuous filmmaker who would have us believe that Saddam's Iraq was an oasis of peace, when in fact it was a place of indescribable cruelty, torture chambers, mass graves and prisons that destroyed the lives of the small children inside their walls."
--John McCain


Of course John never saw the movie, and of course Moore never claimed that Iraq was an "oasis of peace". Yes, I know it's just a tiny untruth, but still...

On a side note, I wonder how John was able to forgive Bush for the vicious personal attacks Bush used against him in the 2000 primaries.
I saw Moore's movie the day it came out and I doubt anyone has ever put out a more inaccurate piece of dung. McCain could not have been more right and does not need to see the whole movie to come to that conclusion. My friends serving in Iraq who saw a bootleg copy of the movie feel even more strongly than I do about Moore's little film.

Sorry, but this is not an example of a "partial truth" by McCain.
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Old 09-03-2004, 05:23 AM   #56
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McCain being forced to publicly hug Bush is proof enough to me that he's engaging in partial truths. It seems clear to me that McCain isn't so much pushing for Bush to be re-elected as he is pushing for the current administration to be reelected (ie, the people actually running the administration).
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Old 09-03-2004, 09:11 AM   #57
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Originally posted by Diemen
McCain being forced to publicly hug Bush is proof enough to me that he's engaging in partial truths. It seems clear to me that McCain isn't so much pushing for Bush to be re-elected as he is pushing for the current administration to be reelected (ie, the people actually running the administration).
Where is your evidence that McCain has been forced to hug anyone. I remind you this was a man that spent over 5 years at the "Hanoi Hilton". The staff at the "Hanoi Hilton" were unable to force him to do anything including signing a document making the same claims of war crimes that John Kerry did for free back in the United States at about the same time.
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Old 09-03-2004, 03:11 PM   #58
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Oh come on. The staff at the Hanoi Hilton weren't members of his own party who were currently in office and had all the power. He also wasn't a career politician at the time and didn't have to worry about compromising his beliefs to gain some political ground.

Do you really think that McCain likes Bush? After the incredibly harsh smear campaign he was subjected to in 2000? A smear campaign that Bush never (publicly) apologized for, despite a direct and public request from McCain?

Anyway, here we go with the hugs



McCain sure looks comfortable, doesn't he?
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Old 09-03-2004, 06:49 PM   #59
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Originally posted by Diemen
Oh come on. The staff at the Hanoi Hilton weren't members of his own party who were currently in office and had all the power. He also wasn't a career politician at the time and didn't have to worry about compromising his beliefs to gain some political ground.

Do you really think that McCain likes Bush? After the incredibly harsh smear campaign he was subjected to in 2000? A smear campaign that Bush never (publicly) apologized for, despite a direct and public request from McCain?

Anyway, here we go with the hugs



McCain sure looks comfortable, doesn't he?
The staff at the Hanoi Hilton had more power over McCain than ANYONE has ever had. Yet they were unable to force him to present a lie about war crimes like Kerry did back in the good old USA.

Smear campaigns are as common as handshakes. Bush and McCain had been in politics a very long time. Bush and McCain have a lot in common politically. You can dream up what ever senerio you want to about how McCain feels personally or deep inside, but I am willing to bet what ever you or I think is probably wrong. We don't know. What we do know is that McCain strongly supports Bush for president. Look at what we factually know. McCain does not need to speak at the convention or do any of this in order to maintain his senate seat in Arizona. There is no personal political motive in helping Bush.

McCain supports Bush because he thinks he did very well the past four years and his views and idea's are much more in keeping with Bush than John Kerry's.
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Old 09-03-2004, 07:42 PM   #60
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I liked what McCain said last night on The Daily Show (i think it was last night) about Dems vs Repubs: Something like "each side should see the other side as opponents not as enemies."

Following that nimrod Zell Miller's speech, McCain's was very refreshing sentiment.

[Oh, and it really wasn't Voltaire who said "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Some writer(s) put that together from various other Voltaire sayings after his death. But, you know, he was thinking that stuff. Though, as i seem to remember, he also wasn't a big fan of Islam or Judaism. I could be wrong.

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20030331.html ]
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