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Old 08-31-2004, 08:55 AM   #16
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mccain is a great man who isn't afriad to speak out... except for when he speaks out against something i like and then he's a doo doo head mouthpiece for the GOP.


now that seems about right.
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Old 08-31-2004, 09:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
Since when did John McCain become a film critic?

I respect John McCain for many reasons, but when he simply becomes a mouthpiece for the neo-conservative segment of his Party, he loses some of his credibility.

Michael Moore has hit a VERY SORE SPOT in the Bush's "war on terror" with "Fahrenheit 9/11" which has RESONATED WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and the Republican Party knows this.

I fully support Michael Moore and nothing the Republicans can do will stop his influence with the American People.
I dont think the American public need to be underestimated so. Moore is rather adept at this, and it's entirely unnecessary.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:07 AM   #18
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Michael Moore's film is only a hit with 2 types: those who are easily brainwashed and those who already agreed with him and lapped it all up like happy dogs.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:11 AM   #19
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I enjoyed John's speech and I am not even a republican. But, I am watching both conventions because I am still "on the fence" over whom to vote for in November. I saw Moore's film Fairenheight 911 and I am angry that the complete truth about Iraq was not show. As mentioned, in another post Saddam was a vicious and brutal dictator. He should have been 'taken out' years ago.

And Mr. Moore I would like to have my 10 dollars back. When you do a documentary, show the entire truth, good and bad. Not, just your version of it. I felt decieved by your film.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:18 AM   #20
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I think McCain is cool. I even cast a vote for him in the 2000 primaries.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:23 AM   #21
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And oh, yes, I agree that Fahrenheit 9/11's depiction of Iraq was pretty damn deceptive. Nothing about people rotting in prisons for non-existent crimes or torture chambers. That too was very much part of Saddam's Iraq.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:31 AM   #22
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no one is going to show us the entire truth on anything that could win / lose a presidential campaign

not Michael Moore, not McCain, no one
so pick parts of what all of them say and try to get to something that is close to the truth
you'll also fail at that though because the parts we pick / do not pick and the way we interpret them is also filled with personal bias

I think the man who laughs the hardest is Michael Moore
if Bush loses he will call himself a hero
if Bush wins he will have an audience for his work
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:49 AM   #23
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Propaganda is a dangerous but effective tool. In a way, Tsarist Russia was brought down by it. The Boshevik revolutionaries spread untrue rumors that the Tsarina and Rasputin were having and affair, and that they were German spies. With the Tsar out in the field with his troops during WWI, this helped turn the public against her and helped fire the revolution (along with the problems that WWI was becoming unpopular and the casualities were high, and the economy was very bad)

I have read that the Bolsheviks seized power (From the provisional gov't who took power after the regime fell) while controlling only 10% of the vast nation- they had the parts that mattered- the newspapers, telephones and telegraphs. They could say and spread whatever they wanted.

But 87 years down the road you'd think people would be too inquistiive, knowledgeable and well informed to fall for propaganda.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:59 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
I fully support Michael Moore
Wow. That's quite a statement. My extreme liberal friends wouldn't go so far as to say they "fully" support Moore, just as my extreme conservative friends wouldn't go so far as to say they "fully" support Bush. In the game of wicked politics, it's hard to "fully" support anyone.

I don't have any profound statements, I was just shocked by that comment.
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:00 AM   #25
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over here the democratic and conservative conventions are compared to party conventions in communist russia

one big show to honour the party leader
no discussion on issues
no room for improvisation
and you can bet your arse that should get it into your head to do anything thats not on the agenda you'll be thrown out there by the speed of greased lightning

propaganda is rooted so deeply into politics nowadays that we even start to say when we see obvious propaganda "well, that's the way politics work"

Michael Moore is just one small aspect
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:44 AM   #26
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BOTH conventions are so planned out, scripted, contrived, airbrushed and prepackaged I find them nauseating and can't watch more than a few miinutes at time. I can't image anyone taking either of them seriously, much less let them decide their choice for president. To do so would be like falling for a scam from a mouthy crooked salesman. Salome please tell your friends that not everyone in America likes those conventions or pays much attention to them.
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:46 AM   #27
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I really see no reason for them other than show, propaganda and salesmanship. In earlier times, conventions were a meeting of electors from each state and when the roll was called there was some doubt as to who would be chosen. But now it's all in the bag months before so it just becomes a party and a bunch of prepackaged speeches written by spin doctors. They might as well do away with them and the people from the states, it doesn't matter now.
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Old 08-31-2004, 12:15 PM   #28
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"Moore seemed to relish the attention, thrusting his arms over his head, laughing and saying, "Two more months."

Asked about McCain's remarks, Moore said, "I can't believe they're dumb enough to bring up the film and help its box office."
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Old 08-31-2004, 12:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
McCain is not a person that deals in "partial truths".
Riiiiight.

Quote:
Weve always had a very cordial relationship, the president and I. Really.
- John McCain, 2004
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Old 08-31-2004, 01:13 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
McCain made an excellant arguement for why George Bush should be re-elected President and that he would make a better President than John Kerry. I think that those on the left that like McCain should take note. McCain is not a person that deals in "partial truths".
I didn't get that at all. I had already posted my opposite reaction earlier in this thread. While he highlighted Bush's "unyielding" "un flinching" "must do" path that we have to be on because "Don't let anyone tell you otherwise", I didn't see it as a persuasive argument to re-elect Bush. I also don't think he said anything comparing Kerry & Bush to highlight Bush being a better choice. Am I missing something?

I do think it was a great speech, but not anything that moved me to re-elect George Bush or that prove to me that Bush would be better than John Kerry.
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