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Old 04-05-2005, 03:37 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
but who claims to be born in love with their cousins

West Virginians?

um, bigoted statement aside ... no one is born in love with anyone, you *fall* in love with someone.

you are born black. you are (probably ... and this is *way* complex, but the important thing is that it is involuntary) born gay.
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Old 04-05-2005, 03:41 PM   #47
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Now 4 pages and no comparison...
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Old 04-05-2005, 03:42 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Now 4 pages and no comparison...

ah, well, it's our fault. we took the bait.
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Old 04-05-2005, 04:18 PM   #49
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Re: Marriage Laws

Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/05/cou....ap/index.html

Time to get with the times - let first cousins have the same rights as homosexuals (in some states).
You omitted the fact that 27 states already permit it. Chances are, too, that if these married couples moved to a state that bans performing them, that state would likely recognize their marriage as they would any heterosexual couple.

The article also states that first cousin marriages are very common and legal in the Middle East, Europe, Canada, Africa, and Asia. Queen Victoria married her first cousin. I believe that FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt were first cousins (correct me if I'm wrong).

If you were trying to be "cute," your point is moot. To all the happily married first cousins out there, who am I to stick my nose in and object? It's none of my business.

Melon
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Old 04-05-2005, 06:16 PM   #50
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I'm quite embarassed and disgusted that my state allows any cousins to marry each other. I only discovered it by looking at that link for the "Cousins' Rights" organization in the article. And yes, I realize it's possible that somewhere in my lineage, there were cousins who married each other. Unfortunately, there were also ancestors who fought for the Confederacy, and that doesn't make it right.

In Mobile County, Alabama, there was a case a couple of years back involving an adult father and his adult daughter and their marriage and sexual relations. I don't mean to be offensive to anyone here, but I find cousins and parents/children marrying each other to be disturbing.

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-05-2005, 09:09 PM   #51
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Just to be contrary, why do we feel the need to interfere with someone else's love interests? I mean, just because I think the thought of marrying any of my first cousins to be disgusting, why should my disgust translate to a law making it illegal? Why do we care? I mean, really.

Melon
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Old 04-05-2005, 10:18 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


and i'm saying that because you cannot equate the two, the legal equivocation between the two arguments isn't possible.

on a personal note, i don't give a damn about first cousins marrying. but that's not applicable here.

the other fact is that heterosexuals have the option to marry any other heterosexual they wish, barring family members. these first cousins are protesting. they're free to do so. but they are wrong to make links to the gay marriage debate; this is an entirely separate issue. homosexuals are seeking to be able to authentically marry someone since they currently have no options.

Quote:
the only applicable historical example was the former ban on interracial marriage.
First off I don't see where every comparison must be perfectly aligned to be worthy of discussion. In the real world these comparisons WILL be made, and to merely dismiss them out of hand will get you nowhere, and might even make many people oppose you even more strongly. I suggest learning to calmly discuss situations that even only peripherally match, because chances are very good most people are not going to think of perfect matches. And the fact is it's in your best interest not to piss off the people (John and Mary Typical Hetero's who vote) who hold your ability to marry as you wish, by telling them so bluntly that they don't know their asses from their elbows.

Oh, and by the way, even your example of interracial marriages does not match perfectly. After all any person of a particular race can marry any other heterosexual within their race, barring family members. So you'd best not use that comparison either.
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Old 04-05-2005, 10:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Just to be contrary, why do we feel the need to interfere with someone else's love interests? I mean, just because I think the thought of marrying any of my first cousins to be disgusting, why should my disgust translate to a law making it illegal? Why do we care? I mean, really.

Melon
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As long as they're consenting adults, and as long as they are madly in love with each other, isn't that all that really matters? Maybe I'm just strange, but I honestly have a hell of a lot more important things in life to worry about than whether or not two men or two women get married, or whether or not cousins get married, or siblings. I wouldn't even know it happened unless they were friends of mine or unless I were to bump into some random couple somewhere, and they were to tell me, so I just don't feel it's my place to really get all up in arms about it. And like melon, I don't understand why others do care.

Angela
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Old 04-06-2005, 05:14 AM   #54
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Quote:
This comparison is laughable. You live your life being black, you live your life being gay, you live your life being straight, but who claims to be born in love with their cousin?
Only laughable if you think people aren't discriminated against by their actions.

So, I'm not laughing.
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Old 04-06-2005, 05:38 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


Only laughable if you think people aren't discriminated against by their actions.

So, I'm not laughing.
But being discriminated against by your actions and by your being are two complete different things.
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Old 04-06-2005, 06:55 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra




First off I don't see where every comparison must be perfectly aligned to be worthy of discussion. In the real world these comparisons WILL be made, and to merely dismiss them out of hand will get you nowhere, and might even make many people oppose you even more strongly. I suggest learning to calmly discuss situations that even only peripherally match, because chances are very good most people are not going to think of perfect matches. And the fact is it's in your best interest not to piss off the people (John and Mary Typical Hetero's who vote) who hold your ability to marry as you wish, by telling them so bluntly that they don't know their asses from their elbows.

Oh, and by the way, even your example of interracial marriages does not match perfectly. After all any person of a particular race can marry any other heterosexual within their race, barring family members. So you'd best not use that comparison either.

sorry, but in FYM, a discussion forum as opposed to a polite conversation had at the supermarket, on the street, or in a restaurant, i am going to tell someone who doesn't know their ass from their elbow that they don't know their ass from their elbow -- and give a reason why.

of course no two situations are exactly comparable, but i think the comparison between homosexual marriage and first cousin marriage is inapplicable upon the grounds that MI tried to make them. i said so, and made my case for the inapplicability of the argument that then renders all the legal arguments that follow totally moot. that was my opinion, and i offered several supporting arguments that went far deeper than "you don't know your ass from your elbow."

and, on a personal note, i am getting really sick of all of this "debate" around the issue -- and if you look at the first post in the thread, it was explicitly gay-baiting ... "get with the times."

and i'm going to make another provocative statement: the argument is essentially over, at least legall in massachusetts and california (see my earlier thread for the legal ruling). and those that cling to these notions of "traditional marriage" are, in my unscientifically substantiated opinion, simply holding onto archaic biases that would probably fall away if they were to actually get to know a real, live gay person and see how a real, life gay relationship, often with children, functions.

i'm not going to call it ignorance, but i am going to call it lack of exposure. so it's my job, in a sense, to be "out" and to teach straight people -- yes, yes, that *is* patronizing, i know, but i don't really care -- who probably aren't exposed to homosexuality very much that it is EXACTLY the same as heterosexuality, in terms of physical attraction and emotional orientation.

you bring up one point in the interracial marriage comparison that is good. however, the distinction i was making between gay marriage and first cousin marriage, and this distinction's connection to the interracial marriage, was that people were being denied the right to marry on the basis of an involuntary, inchangable characteristic. that, to me, is the strong link between the two, and there are no such similarly strong links to be made in the case for gay marriage and for first-cousin marriage.
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Old 04-06-2005, 07:21 AM   #57
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Personally, cousin marriages don't bother me. But I can see how they can bother some people. Royal families, like the Habsburgs, went to hell in a haybasket with all sorts of "madnesses" no doubt caused by too much kin-marriage since they were only allowed to marry other royalty. There is alot of talk these days about the problems with the British royals; have they had too much of this? Queen Victoria married her cousin, and George and Mary (Elizabeth's grandparents) were also cousins, second cousins, I think. I don't know, I think I'm getting confused.
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Old 04-07-2005, 09:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Just to be contrary, why do we feel the need to interfere with someone else's love interests? I mean, just because I think the thought of marrying any of my first cousins to be disgusting, why should my disgust translate to a law making it illegal? Why do we care? I mean, really.
Honestly, melon, I do see your point. But I still object to the thought of flesh and blood mating with itself. You may have changed your views over the years, but you and I in the past had very similar views against dope, which, as you know, the pro-dope crowd can raise the same issue as your are raising here about cousins getting married.

And again, this issue is disgusting to me because it actually IS legal in my state and my state "benefits" from the jokes and images associated with cousins marrying each other. But this is only one of many legal issues in my state and its constitution that I find to be disturbing.

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-07-2005, 09:46 PM   #59
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I think if this was a moral issue then more stringent blood test and what not would be administered and made law. But the fact is people honestly don't care as long as they are heterosexual.

I for one can marry someone, and have probably a better chance marrying a cousin outside of my family than inside my family due to the fact that I have no clue as to my bloodline.
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Old 04-07-2005, 10:16 PM   #60
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Okay heres one for you all, in an incestuous relationship it is deemed to be harmful because of the increased risk of genetic disease in offspring. Going by the same logic could society make it illegal for individuals who suffer from severe and heritable genetic diseases to procreate?

What is the line between protection and eugenics and where must it be drawn.
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