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Old 04-05-2005, 01:40 PM   #16
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


Irvine - did you read the article?

Why do you guys keep referring to this as incest?

yes.

had nothing to do with homosexuality -- yet you think we should keep up with "the times." first cousins = incest.
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:41 PM   #17
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first cousins = incest
In only half of the states apparently.
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:44 PM   #18
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had nothing to do with homosexuality -- yet you think we should keep up with "the times." first cousins = incest
And you insist their is no similarity in their legal argument?
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:45 PM   #19
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


In only half of the states apparently.

only half the states felt it necessary to pass a law.
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:45 PM   #20
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in·cest ** *P***Pronunciation Key**(nsst)
n.
Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom.
it ain't illegal in maryland, baby!
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:45 PM   #21
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only half the states felt it necessary to pass a law
The other half assumed that first cousins would know better?
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:51 PM   #22
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


And you insist their is no similarity in their legal argument?

i'm insisting there is no basis of comparison between incest and homosexuality. the legal argument is therefore moot.
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:55 PM   #23
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Well two pages and you haven't shown the comparison, so I really don't see this thread going anywhere. Until there's merit, I'm out of here.
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:57 PM   #24
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i'm insisting there is no basis of comparison between incest and homosexuality. the legal argument is therefore moot
I'm not comparing incest and homosexuality.

I'm comparing the legal and moral argument of this group who are denied marriage rights in certain states, with that of homosexuals' legal and moral argument who are denied marriage rights in certain states.

Both say it's an education issue.
Both say it's no harm to anyone else.
Both have factual, documented evidence to support their arguments.
Both are denied in some cases, in some situations.

Both are making headway politically in their movements.
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Old 04-05-2005, 02:04 PM   #25
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


I'm not comparing incest and homosexuality.

I'm comparing the legal and moral argument of this group who are denied marriage rights in certain states, with that of homosexuals' legal and moral argument who are denied marriage rights in certain states.

Both say it's an education issue.
Both say it's no harm to anyone else.
Both have factual, documented evidence to support their arguments.
Both are denied in some cases, in some situations.

Both are making headway politically in their movements.

but you can't compare the two.

everything else is moot after that.

and so now you do admit that this is about homosexuality? what happened to your innocent face?
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Old 04-05-2005, 02:14 PM   #26
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but you can't compare the two
?????????? What exactly can't we compare? I'm not comparing homosexuality to incest. I'm not saying they are the same thing.

I am saying that the legal and moral arguments are similar. That first cousins have been discriminated against in some states because people think that their offspring are likely to have birth defects. Apparently that is not the case. They are trying to inform the public of this, and educate people so that it's more acceptable, and get the laws changed.

I never said this wasn't about homosexuality. Hence the words used in the first post.

My offense was to BVS's comment - Obviously I have a position of ignorance and hatred.
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Old 04-05-2005, 02:23 PM   #27
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


My offense was to BVS's comment - Obviously I have a position of ignorance and hatred.
I said nothing of ingnorance. I've seen your previous posts on the subject and the original post was obvious baiting so I apologize if you took offense.
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Old 04-05-2005, 02:26 PM   #28
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


?????????? What exactly can't we compare? I'm not comparing homosexuality to incest. I'm not saying they are the same thing.

I am saying that the legal and moral arguments are similar. That first cousins have been discriminated against in some states because people think that their offspring are likely to have birth defects. Apparently that is not the case. They are trying to inform the public of this, and educate people so that it's more acceptable, and get the laws changed.

I never said this wasn't about homosexuality. Hence the words used in the first post.

My offense was to BVS's comment - Obviously I have a position of ignorance and hatred.

and i'm saying that because you cannot equate the two, the legal equivocation between the two arguments isn't possible.

on a personal note, i don't give a damn about first cousins marrying. but that's not applicable here.

the other fact is that heterosexuals have the option to marry any other heterosexual they wish, barring family members. these first cousins are protesting. they're free to do so. but they are wrong to make links to the gay marriage debate; this is an entirely separate issue. homosexuals are seeking to be able to authentically marry someone since they currently have no options.

you'd do well to view this as an expansion of the definitions of heterosexuality as opposed to equivocating incest with homosexuality -- you're taking the position that both wanting to marry your cousin and wanting to marry another homosexual are deviations from what is the "correct" standard, non-related heteroseuxals, and then constructing links based upon this false assumption.

this is where i'm spotting something akin to bigotry, and why as i said earlier that it's not about hate -- it's that you don't regard homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality.

ask yourself this: do you think two cousins are capable of loving each other in as profound a manner as you and your wife (making an assumption that you are married)? if so, then should they be allowed to marry?
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Old 04-05-2005, 02:44 PM   #29
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Here's where the difference is and hence why the two can't be used for or against each other.

Heterosexuals can now marry anyone of consenting age who isn't a family member, it doesn't matter race, religion, etc. These cousins are still heterosexuals, the only legal reasoning for cousins not being able to marry is the once believed thought that offspring would be harmful to the children, and the traditional taboos. But we all know heterosexual taboos eventually change i.e. interratial marriage. Now that science is moving away from the idea that offspring won't be affected, things may change, we'll see.

This doesn't sound anything like the debate over homosexual marriage.
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Old 04-05-2005, 02:51 PM   #30
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I found several cousin marriages in my own ancestry. I'm the family genealogy freak. I found several cousin marriages in a family that came from Ireland and settled in South Carolina in the late eighteenth century. I think it used to be fairly common in small communities when a heck of alot of the people were related to each other. They were members of the Presbyterian Church, a church that had really strict morals. There was nothing immoral about these marriages, from their point of view.
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