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Old 06-21-2007, 11:26 AM   #166
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I don't get it either. If you're anti-gay marriage, then don't get married to someone of the same sex, right? Or am I oversimplifying it. If marriage is supposed to be left between 2 people, then leave it between 2 people and stop trying to invade other peoples' lives.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:30 AM   #167
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Originally posted by unico


even leaders of some christian churches disagree.
I hear they even have some gay pastors now.
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:41 PM   #168
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the whole "being gay is a choice" thing.

scientists and psychologists disagree with you.

gay people disagree with you.

yet, you're not a scientist, a psychologist, or gay. but you say they're wrong. can't you admit to a little self-delusion at the very least?
Well, when I told him about the scientists, he did not believe me, so clearly he's been locked up in a basement with nothing but the Bible and a radical priest for the last 20 years. Or, he's lying to himself. One or the other.
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:59 PM   #169
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Well, when I told him about the scientists, he did not believe me, so clearly he's been locked up in a basement with nothing but the Bible and a radical priest for the last 20 years. Or, he's lying to himself. One or the other.
No, I do not believe you. I have read reports on the internet of scientists stating otherwise- that environment plays a role and that you cannot predict who will be gay. Those are some of the problems with your theory and insistance that being born gay is a fact. It might be, but it might not be. You all seem too eager to accept anything that science says.

I still fail to see how you think I am lying to myself.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:00 PM   #170
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i do have to say that i am getting uncomfortable with the ganging up in this thread. everything has been generally polite, and i feel like direct questions are fine, but let's not speak about someone as if he's not even in the room.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:01 PM   #171
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Originally posted by anitram


Yeah, it makes a lot more sense that they decide to be gay and live in a world full of people like you.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:02 PM   #172
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You said you did " a little more research and looking some more in the Bible." Did you do all that on your own or are you talking to a pastor or somoene else you respect who was able to "quickly correct" you. Because to go from "oral sex is wrong" to "sex was created by God for man and woman to enjoy" in a day or two just based on your own research is pretty amazing
No, I did not talk to anybody. I read a little more and thought a little more, and concluded that I was wrong in my statements, and I fully acknowledge that.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:04 PM   #173
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No, I do not believe you. I have read reports on the internet of scientists stating otherwise- that environment plays a role and that you cannot predict who will be gay. Those are some of the problems with your theory and insistance that being born gay is a fact. It might be, but it might not be. You all seem too eager to accept anything that science says.

I still fail to see how you think I am lying to myself.


while many people agree that it isn't solely genetic, insofar as there isn't a "gay" gene -- just like there isn't a "black" gene or a "white" gene -- there is unanimous consensus that a person does not choose to be gay, that biology plays a large part, and that, most importantly, sexual orientation, whether hetero or homo, is 100% involuntary.

again, i think we're coming back to a few questions:

1. why do you choose to believe that gay people choose to be gay?
2. why are you willing to deny things like hospital visitation rights or sharing of medical benefits to gay domestic partners?
3. what is at threat if gay people were allowed to marry? how would this negatively impact you?
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:13 PM   #174
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Believe it or not, I was wrong in that aspect. After doing a little more research and looking some more in the Bible, I realized I was wrong. Unlike animals (who mate only to procreate), God made humans different than animals. Humans use sex to fulfill bodily desires as well. So, yes, I was wrong, and I truly apologize.
Doesn't it scare you, your lack of Biblical knowledge yet you still go spouting off BS like this? It does me, it embarasses Christians all over.


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Originally posted by 2861U2

Huh? I could give you as many passages as you want which condemn homosexuality.
Do you know what year the word homosexuality was first used? Where does the word 'homosexuality' get used in the Bible? And what was original translation?

The truth is, you have no clue about any of these things, do you?



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Originally posted by 2861U2

Please tell me how am I lying to myself.
Your posts are dripping with it. You basically come off as a 19 year old that just repeats the rhetoric and hate that you were taught by your parents, Rush, or your minister; for your own knowledge of these subjects is horrible.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:32 PM   #175
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Originally posted by Irvine511
i do have to say that i am getting uncomfortable with the ganging up in this thread. everything has been generally polite, and i feel like direct questions are fine, but let's not speak about someone as if he's not even in the room.


I know we're all passionate about this subject but nothing much will come of making fun of people.
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:01 PM   #176
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3. what is at threat if gay people were allowed to marry? how would this negatively impact you?
This is the huge question for everyone.
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:01 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i do have to say that i am getting uncomfortable with the ganging up in this thread. everything has been generally polite, and i feel like direct questions are fine, but let's not speak about someone as if he's not even in the room.
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
I know we're all passionate about this subject but nothing much will come of making fun of people.
Thanks guys...you said that more patiently than I would have.

If you really believe you have the stronger argument on your side, there's no need for taunts, which do little or nothing to change minds anyhow.
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:03 PM   #178
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Originally posted by Irvine511
i do have to say that i am getting uncomfortable with the ganging up in this thread. everything has been generally polite, and i feel like direct questions are fine, but let's not speak about someone as if he's not even in the room.
My apologies, although I'm not trying to gang up. I'm more trying to show how ridiculous these statements can sound, however, I agree that it was overly rude and would not help the discussion.
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:09 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


No, I do not believe you. I have read reports on the internet of scientists stating otherwise- that environment plays a role and that you cannot predict who will be gay. Those are some of the problems with your theory and insistance that being born gay is a fact. It might be, but it might not be. You all seem too eager to accept anything that science says.

I still fail to see how you think I am lying to myself.
I'm curious, could you tell me what journals these articles were in? And if they were peer-reviewed? Because I really doubt the APA would acknowledge claims that aren't research based and empirically tested. I wouldn't trust any article dealing with human behavior that isn't recognized by the APA. I think that believing those particular articles would be "accepting anything that science says." As you say.

I'm not trying to attack you. But I honestly would like you to share these Biblical verses regarding "homosexuality" (not just the man/man stuff but that stuff that includes woman/woman) and these scientific reports that you speak of.
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:12 PM   #180
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I find it truly embarassing that my religion and that conservatism has been defined by bigots.

I admit to being extremely homophobic when I was younger, it was purely from not knowing and having everyone telling me it was wrong, growing up and actually knowing gay people has changed those views. I just wish more would grow up.
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