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Old 04-09-2006, 01:29 AM   #46
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Originally posted by AliEnvy


So basically you're dodging the healthcare issue by saying America's military saves the world and therefore Americans must sacrifice a better standard of living to protect everybody else?

Incorrect, I pointed out to that the countries in 11-21 have similar health care programs as the ones in 1-9 which shows that "health Care" is not the reason that countries 1-9 are ranked higher. The global economic system for which countries 1-9 depend on for their standard of living would not exist without the American Military. These countries have very small defense budgets and a favorable balance of trade with the United States. They have smaller populations and can benefit from favorable trade conditions or an unusual abundance of a natural resource in ways that large countries could not.
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Old 04-09-2006, 01:31 AM   #47
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Just because some employees report working massive amounts of overtime for which they are not payed does not translate into a national average.
But it DOES mean that the national average is likely under-stated. By how much? Who knows. It's also likely rising faster than we know because accurate measurements are not taken.

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We have the facts from the Department of Labor, we have an unproven allegation from you that the AVERAGE American is working 10 to 20 hours longer than any hours that are reported.
Haha yeah...cause what would I know? I will spare you my resume and guess that you are either studying this in school or are in a government job that is fairly far removed from the reality of the private sector.
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Old 04-09-2006, 01:42 AM   #48
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Originally posted by STING2

Incorrect, I pointed out to that the countries in 11-21 have similar health care programs as the ones in 1-9 which shows that "health Care" is not the reason that countries 1-9 are ranked higher. The global economic system for which countries 1-9 depend on for their standard of living would not exist without the American Military. These countries have very small defense budgets and a favorable balance of trade with the United States. They have smaller populations and can benefit from favorable trade conditions or an unusual abundance of a natural resource in ways that large countries could not.
I still see you saying that the US military budget pumps up countries 1-9 and therefore leaves the US unable to afford a better HDI ranking.

If not for the healthcare/military tradeoff, why isn't the US much higher in HDI?
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Old 04-09-2006, 02:28 AM   #49
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But it DOES mean that the national average is likely under-stated. By how much? Who knows. It's also likely rising faster than we know because accurate measurements are not taken.



Well, that could be said about any time period(1900 or 2006) as well as any country in the world.
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Old 04-09-2006, 02:42 AM   #50
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I still see you saying that the US military budget pumps up countries 1-9 and therefore leaves the US unable to afford a better HDI ranking.

If not for the healthcare/military tradeoff, why isn't the US much higher in HDI?
I listed the military budget as one factor out of many that could impact the HDI.

Its more complex than simply a healthcare/military tradeoff. Most people regard the health care system in the United Kingdom to be better than Ireland, but Ireland has a higher standard of living than the United Kingdom. Hundreds of factors go into making these annual reports. As I said before, a country like Norway that is sitting on a valuable natural resource relative to the size of its population is going to benefit in ways that a large country like the United States would not. Favorable balance of trade as well as other issues also have an impact.
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Old 04-09-2006, 04:43 AM   #51
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


This is all BS. Now, people working =


No one is crying for wage rates, benefits, etc. from 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.

Generations ago, people would be willing to work their way up. Now, people just want to start several rungs up the ladder.
alright nbcrusader, let's say you got laid off from your posh 7ob three years ago, but since nothing has opened up to you since, you decide to take a 7ob you're overqualifed for 7ust for the fact it's a source of income... even if it's half of what you used to make, and that's not taking inflation into account (though in three years, it's not that much of a factor)

now you're part of a statistic that lumps you with the rest of the "employed".

don't complain now, you can always move your way up at your new 7ob, right??

statistics can be incredibly deceiving if not put into a proper context.
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Old 04-09-2006, 05:35 AM   #52
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Who defines proper context?
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Old 04-09-2006, 11:09 AM   #53
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Who defines proper context?
Certainly not the Republican Party. They redefined everything from "inflation" to "unemployment" in the 1980s to create rosy numbers for themselves.

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Old 04-09-2006, 11:11 AM   #54
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Who defines proper context?
civil unrest.

and rarely has it ever been as high in the states as it is now. and it's not all because of the ridiculous iraq war, either.
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Old 04-09-2006, 01:34 PM   #55
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civil unrest.

and rarely has it ever been as high in the states as it is now. and it's not all because of the ridiculous iraq war, either.
There is little, if any, politically motivated civil unrest in the United States. Even for the third anniversery of the start of the Iraq War, the number of people at protest in the major cities was tiny, often only in the hundreds. In a country of 300 million people, a protest of that size is not even a seriously reportable event.

People get laid off in countries all over the world. That does not change the fact that the average person in the United States enjoys a standard of living that is the 10th highest in the world. It does not change the fact that the median annual income in the United States is $49,000 dollars, one of the highest in the world as well. The unemployment rate while not the only factor is a significant one, and a 4.7% unemployment rate is one of the best in the world.

Whats incredibly deceiving is to take individual situations and extrapolate them over the entire country and pretend that they constitute the average experience of the person living there which could not be further from the truth.
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Old 04-09-2006, 01:51 PM   #56
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Originally posted by melon
People are right to question the quality of jobs in the American marketplace today.
Why? As a country, we are near the top in standard of living. And dare say, most of the questioning is done by people who live in the upper half of US society.

Not everyone has the opportunity to obtain all the post-graduate education that some of us have obtained, yet the "highly educated" ones cry for more.

What is the basis that anything is owed to us? And on what basis should be expect others to provide for us?
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Old 04-09-2006, 01:54 PM   #57
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I'm sorry, I believe this is a romanticized version of the past.
On what basis? Not once have we been presented with facts suggesting that life was better in any prior decade.

The fact is that current generations enter the job market at income levels that took the prior generations years to achieve.

And, the facts show that we consume faster than we earn, unlike prior generations where savings occurred prior to spending.
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Old 04-09-2006, 02:00 PM   #58
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
And, the facts show that we consume faster than we earn, unlike prior generations where savings occurred prior to spending.
You want to talk about "prior generations"?

1) My grandparents paid cash for their house in the 1950s.

2) My parents paid cash for new cars in the 1970s.

3) One of my doctors was able to work only over the summer to pay for an entire year for a private university.

So don't start jabbering about "prior generations." They went through life burning every bridge behind them.

If inflation was defined appropriately, rather than skewed against wages, we should be making, on average, millions of dollars a year just to have the same lifestyle as "prior generations."

So, yes, when WildHoneyAlways says you have a romanticized version of the past, I'd say that's right on the mark.

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Old 04-09-2006, 02:01 PM   #59
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
I don't even hold the faintest glimmer of hope that my kids will ever own their own homes, at least not where we live right now (Orange County, CA). You can't even buy a 1 bedroom condo for $250,000. Our median home price is sitting somewhere around $650,000 and rising.
We should address this issue to the current home owners who want so much for the homes they sell.

Orange County is incredibly expensive and anyone thinking of entering the home market (self included) will face enormous barriers.

The flip-side, however, is that there a now thousands of people who, in as little as 1-2 years, have earned enough equity in a home to (for example) completely finance a college education.

So, homeownership has been a boon to many, even though the rest of us are on the outside looking in.


Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
And the average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is $1,400 per month
This raises two good points. First, is it far cheaper to rent than own in todays market. Even at $1400 a month, the cost of a mortgage for a small condo (even with our relatively low interest rates) makes ownership difficult to obtain.

Second, is the "American Dream" of home ownership a right? Should it be? Do we miss the value of renting in establishing priorities?
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Old 04-09-2006, 02:04 PM   #60
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Second, is the "American Dream" of home ownership a right? Should it be? Do we miss the value of renting in establishing priorities?


There is no "value" in renting. You're literally throwing your money away, whereas home ownership allows you to put money in something that you can eventually sell.

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