MANDATORY health insurance, part 2

[Benji2112]

Did we really want to sit through another Republican circus, just to get confirmed anyway?

That's what these things have turned into(especially from the party of no), I really see no point in having them unless there is a real possibility of being not confirmed. Allegations of being gay, communist, etc are just getting ridiculous.

That would not be the reason . You will soon find out. You will be hearing a lot about this Dr.


Dd anyone ask Kagan if she was Gay? I dont think so.

 

[BVS]

"haven't heard one single legitimate complaint about this guy from Republicans. " Oh, you will. Especially come November

He's a strong patient rights advocate, Yes... That would be one way to put it .

is highly educated and very qualified Because he teaches at Harvard? But yes, that is also one way to put it... qualified.


is highly educated and very qualified; does that go against the Republican platform these days. Republicans ( many are Drs) have nothing against healthcare. It is THIS healthcare.

Have you read any of the Good Dr's papers? They are very enlightening and insightful with some very interesting ideas on how to save money.

Republicans are against condoms? In grade schools and such sure. They feel the PARENTS should have that responsibility .

Why did you make the same post if you weren't going to add anything new?

You still haven't given me any legitimate complaints.

And the birth control/prayer thing was in reference to Bush's appointee who was a complete hack wrote papers about how women should just pray to help their PMS, was against the pill and supported pharmacists that wanted to deny the pill or other drugs to women.

 

[BVS]

That would not be the reason . You will soon find out. You will be hearing a lot about this Dr.

Oh, I've heard a lot, but like I said I haven't heard any LEGITIMATE reasons, just a lot of speculation and twisting of one liners taken out of context.

Dd anyone ask Kagan if she was Gay? I dont think so.

But there was A LOT of talk about it on the radio shows and conservative blogs. I didn't listen to the whole hearing, so I'm not sure if it was asked.

 

[Benji2112]

Why did you make the same post if you weren't going to add anything new?

You still haven't given me any legitimate complaints.

And the birth control/prayer thing was in reference to Bush's appointee who was a complete hack wrote papers about how women should just pray to help their PMS, was against the pill and supported pharmacists that wanted to deny the pill or other drugs to women.

A. Because I want you to look yourself. Look at his book and any NEJM papers.

B Bush isn't President .

c Pharmacists, regardless of political affiliation are trying very hard to regulate a lot of prescriptions. Try to get any pain meds lately ? They do it with all kinds of drugs. Always have, but it is getting muuch worse.

But if someone's personal belief keeps them from giving the pill, then the tech can fill it. They have delt with that.

 

[Benji2112]

Oh, I've heard a lot, but like I said I haven't heard any LEGITIMATE reasons, just a lot of speculation and twisting of one liners taken out of context.



But there was A LOT of talk about it on the radio shows and conservative blogs. I didn't listen to the whole hearing, so I'm not sure if it was asked.

they didnt ask . she was actually funny

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

But if someone's personal belief keeps them from giving the pill, then the tech can fill it

Or maybe then they can quit their job-because their responsibility is to the patient first. Don't go into that line of work in the first place if any pill is such a conflict with your moral values.

 

[BVS]

A. Because I want you to look yourself. Look at his book and any NEJM papers.

I have.

B Bush isn't President .

Were you outraged then? I'm saying comparatively speaking this guy looks like a saint.

c Pharmacists, regardless of political affiliation are trying very hard to regulate a lot of prescriptions. Try to get any pain meds lately ? They do it with all kinds of drugs. Always have, but it is getting muuch worse.

But if someone's personal belief keeps them from giving the pill, then the tech can fill it. They have delt with that.

This isn't always the case. Pharmacists should learn how to do their job, period. And that we had an administration that supported this nonsense was maddening.

 

[Benji2112]

Or maybe then they can quit their job-because their responsibility is to the patient first. Don't go into that line of work in the first place if any pill is such a conflict with your moral values.

I don't think it is a the majority of them . I think it was Walgreens or Eckerds that had a problem. One of the 2.

Pain meds are the worse. Police coming from one side, some Pharmacist from the other . DEA tells how many Vicodan ( harmless ) can be manufactured in a small time period.

I agree, Patients first .

 

[Benji2112]

I have.


Were you outraged then? I'm saying comparatively speaking this guy looks like a saint.


This isn't always the case. Pharmacists should learn how to do their job, period. And that we had an administration that supported this nonsense was maddening.

Yup, very much so. I actually voted for Gore the first time. I am glad that didn't work out, but I was no fan of Bush.

Right now, the Pain med Drs society of 20 was just at the WH last week,, asking for funding for busting Drs who write them. Or protection for themselves.

This will be, it is really
the new war on Drugs. Legtimate pain meds. They can't stop the illegal stuff ( someone told me an 8 ball in Miami is 40.00 off the key) it is eveerywhere, so they are going to attack ligit pain meds, Dr's and Patients . Watch. It is happening now . Is Bush still in Office?

I agree Pharms should fill prescriptions and look for interactions etc

 

[Benji2112]

I have.


Were you outraged then? I'm saying comparatively speaking this guy looks like a saint.


This isn't always the case. Pharmacists should learn how to do their job, period. And that we had an administration that supported this nonsense was maddening.

They do their jobs. they are just slow. You know, like someone still playing Dylan songs in small places.

 

[Benji2112]

I have.


Were you outraged then? I'm saying comparatively speaking this guy looks like a saint.


This isn't always the case. Pharmacists should learn how to do their job, period. And that we had an administration that supported this nonsense was maddening.

What papers of his have you read? You said you have in the Journal. which ones? specifically.

so 22,000 lifetime sounds about right for you then? cool.

 

[BVS]

They do their jobs. they are just slow. You know, like someone still playing Dylan songs in small places.

They are not doing their job if they are refusing to fill subscriptions that the patients bring in...

That analogy

 

[BVS]

What papers of his have you read? You said you have in the Journal. which ones? specifically.

Sorry just read this part:

Because I want you to look yourself.

and responded to that.

so 22,000 lifetime sounds about right for you then? cool.

What?

 

[Benji2112]

Sorry just read this part:



and responded to that.




What?

what specific papers did you read, written by him, in The New England Journal of medicine. Article and the article number.

That way we can start o he same page. I have read them all over the years, so wherever you want to start is fine.

 

[BVS]

I just admited that I haven't read any of HIS writings. I just read the first part of your post and responded to that.

The only thing I've read or paid attention to is the commentary on both sides.

 

[Benji2112]

I just admited that I haven't read any of HIS writings. I just read the first part of your post and responded to that.

The only thing I've read or paid attention to is the commentary on both sides.

I see. You might want to before you jump for joy. Even the Demos are PO'd about the recess appointment.

Read what he says, not what people say he says. Read his own words.

I have always said to people, be carefull what you wish for.

 

[BVS]

I see. You might want to before you jump for joy. Even the Demos are PO'd about the recess appointment.

Read what he says, not what people say he says. Read his own words.

I have always said to people, be carefull what you wish for.

No jumping over here.

Haven't seen many Dems upset.

And I'm pretty sure you haven't read something written by everyone in DC, it would be ridiculous to even suggest...

One can obviously tell you didn't read Obama's book, so one should be careful about preaching about reading "what people say he says"...

 

[Benji2112]

No jumping over here.

Haven't seen many Dems upset.

And I'm pretty sure you haven't read something written by everyone in DC, it would be ridiculous to even suggest...

One can obviously tell you didn't read Obama's book, so one should be careful about preaching about reading "what people say he says"...

I didnt? Are you a sage?

Hmmm Congress is on vaction . a lot of Demo's will find him a tough sell. Nelso in Florida. I can see it now.

Max is upset. There will be more. Have you read a SNGLE paper he has written? No. I suggest you do, but it is ok. You can wait 17 months for a GP, and so on, and we will keep our own insurance . Yours will be free ! If you believe that .

Dem Baucus joins GOP in blasting Obama CMS recess appointment - The Hill's Healthwatch Baucus is Chairman of the committee btw

 

[BVS]

I didnt? Are you a sage?

No, your cut and paste plagerism a couple days ago made that obvious.

Dem Baucus joins GOP in blasting Obama CMS recess appointment - The Hill's Healthwatch Baucus is Chairman of the committee btw

So one Dem = "even the Dems are PO'ed"

Man, you're hilarious.

 

[Benji2112]

No, your cut and paste plagerism a couple days ago made that obvious.




So one Dem = "even the Dems are PO'ed"

Man, you're hilarious.

The Committee Chair is a good place to start .. When the rest get back from visiting Fort Worth and the Alalmo, I am sure we will hear more. I am really still trying to get a hold of the Glenn Beck rally you went to at the Alamo. Were you in the New York or the Ft Worth Alamo rally ?

Did you get the clip" Beck doesnt like" having an openly gay conessman? " I bet you there isn't one. He doesnt like Barney frank, if that is who you are refering to . He doesnt start with Openly gay congressman Barney Franks. He says Congressman Barney frank.

Did you watch the 3 video's of him saying" he didnt like Bush and Obama , Republicans and Democrats ?

Seems like reading the New York times.... .

Hey Bud, the Alamo is in San Antonio.

 

[BVS]

The Committee Chair is a good place to start .. When the rest get back from visiting Fort Worth and the Alalmo, I am sure we will hear more. I am really still trying to get a hold of the Glenn Beck rally you went to at the Alamo. Were you in the New York or the Ft Worth Alamo rally ?

Did you get the clip" Beck doesnt like" having an openly gay conessman? " I bet you there isn't one. He doesnt like Barney frank, if that is who you are refering to . He doesnt start with Openly gay congressman Barney Franks. He says Congressman Barney frank.

Did you watch the 3 video's of him saying" he didnt like Bush and Obama , Republicans and Democrats ?

Seems like reading the New York times.... .

Hey Bud, the Alamo is in San Antonio.

You seem to confuse very easily, I was at the rally in San Antonio with Glenn. The guy with the sign was at a Forth Worth rally, so saying you saw him there would be a lie.

I have no clue what you're talking about with Barney Frank, I wasn't talking about Glenn specifically, I was talking about the Tea Party in general. Seen many signs and heard many folks reference Barney. AND yes Glenn has mentioned that we are in a cultural war.

 

[Irvine511]

You seem to confuse very easily

.

 

[BVS]

Went out of town over the weekend and ran into a friend that I haven't seen in two years. She's suffering from a degenarative disease that is causing her to go blind. She has an extreme case, her siblings have it but not nearly as far along. Her doctors here have told her there's nothing she can do short of an eye transplant, which she doesn't qualify for, but found a specialist in Canda that can treat her and prolong her sight. This is her 2nd round of treatments.

She was pretty dead set against the idea of anything resembling socialized medicine, but was telling all of us this weekend that most of what she was sold about the Canadian system were lies.

 

[Irvine511]

if only we had tort reform and competitive insurance plans across state lines, *then* i'm sure she'd be fine.

 

[INDY500]

For Maycocksean.

Here is a recent article by a House Democrat on why he didn't vote for the health care bill. I don't agree with him 100% but that's OK and he gives a good summary of how we got here, why the just passed bill will only exacerbate the problem and in which direction we should have gone. And could have gone with a bipartisan majority, in fact, with the proper leadership.

Be happy to discuss any of it with you in detail if you're interested.

Real Health-Care Reform - Jim Marshall - National Review Online

 

[Benji2112]

For Maycocksean.

Here is a recent article by a House Democrat on why he didn't vote for the health care bill. I don't agree with him 100% but that's OK and he gives a good summary of how we got here, why the just passed bill will only exacerbate the problem and in which direction we should have gone. And could have gone with a bipartisan majority, in fact, with the proper leadership.

Be happy to discuss any of it with you in detail if you're interested.

Real Health-Care Reform - Jim Marshall - National Review Online

I would basically agree with that, except this part regarding defensive medicine. If someone wants a ct-scan, and they scream for a ct scan , and a Dr doesn't do it, and cancer shows up in 6 months. Lawsuit. His measure of cost for trail lawyers, for everyone, and increase in malpractice insurance increases, is way too low.

"Over decades, health care’s distorted third-party-payer incentives have caused providers to do more and more tests, procedures, and consultations. This “more and more” has become the accepted standard of care."

Because of lawsuits. It is that simple.

Go to Alabama, or La, Ms or Ak , and try to find a neo Natal specialist. You won't find a single one, because the "king of Tort courts) in those states, you award parents a million dollars or more, because the baby doesnt have blue eyes let alone if mom was smoking crack during the pregnency.

It is a bigger problem than people understand.

Also, 60 Billion in Medicare fraud. That number is way to low.

But the gist of what he is saying, I agree with.


Government can't run a train, it can't run healthcare.

 

[Benji2112]

Went out of town over the weekend and ran into a friend that I haven't seen in two years. She's suffering from a degenarative disease that is causing her to go blind. She has an extreme case, her siblings have it but not nearly as far along. Her doctors here have told her there's nothing she can do short of an eye transplant, which she doesn't qualify for, but found a specialist in Canda that can treat her and prolong her sight. This is her 2nd round of treatments.

She was pretty dead set against the idea of anything resembling socialized medicine, but was telling all of us this weekend that most of what she was sold about the Canadian system were lies.

what disease is this that they can't treat in the USA ?

 

[maycocksean]

For Maycocksean.

Here is a recent article by a House Democrat on why he didn't vote for the health care bill. I don't agree with him 100% but that's OK and he gives a good summary of how we got here, why the just passed bill will only exacerbate the problem and in which direction we should have gone. And could have gone with a bipartisan majority, in fact, with the proper leadership.

Be happy to discuss any of it with you in detail if you're interested.

Real Health-Care Reform - Jim Marshall - National Review Online

Excellent article, INDY. It might surprise you to find I do agree with him almost 100%. The first paragraph captures exactly how I feel about the current health care reform law. A lot of my objections in these threads have been more to the partisan hyperbole, not to legitimate concerns.

I too feel that the third-party system is the primary cause of the escalating cost of health care. I like the idea of health care savings plans (and I seem to recall you're a fan of them too). I wonder if we'll be able to make the move that the Jim Marshall advocates though, whether people will be willing to do it. I think many Americans who have health insurance have gotten used to the "overcare" approach and would be nervous about giving it up.

I also agree with Irvine that if we're going to reduce the deficit, we really have to look at the areas that are costing the most--defense, social security, medicare and make some hard choices there.

What I've always been interested in is a balanced and thoughtful approach to the issues, which is a lot drier than the screaming "Obamacare!" and "socialism" and "Tea Baggers!" but would be far more productive.

What parts of the article did you disagree with, and what parts did you like?

 

[Benji2112]

Excellent article, INDY. It might surprise you to find I do agree with him almost 100%. The first paragraph captures exactly how I feel about the current health care reform law. A lot of my objections in these threads have been more to the partisan hyperbole, not to legitimate concerns.

I too feel that the third-party system is the primary cause of the escalating cost of health care. I like the idea of health care savings plans (and I seem to recall you're a fan of them too). I wonder if we'll be able to make the move that the Jim Marshall advocates though, whether people will be willing to do it. I think many Americans who have health insurance have gotten used to the "overcare" approach and would be nervous about giving it up.

I also agree with Irvine that if we're going to reduce the deficit, we really have to look at the areas that are costing the most--defense, social security, medicare and make some hard choices there.

What I've always been interested in is a balanced and thoughtful approach to the issues, which is a lot drier than the screaming "Obamacare!" and "socialism" and "Tea Baggers!" but would be far more productive.

What parts of the article did you disagree with, and what parts did you like?

" too feel that the third-party system is the primary cause of the escalating cost of health care."

Wouldn't the Government take the place of the 3rd party under the current plan? ? Yes, a government agency is to be created. So they are the new 3rd party billing system . The Post office, Amtrack , 2,000 toilet seats, military contracts, everything the Government does, cost more.

You think getting approval for a CT scan is tough with insurance, think how tough it will be in a Government agency larger than all branches of Military, and everything you can think of, combined.

medicare- Wasteful fraud. The only way to lower the cost beyong reducing fraud, is to ration. There is no other way. Your mamogram is now age 50 is a good example. Was 40 last year.

social security,- The trust fund for social security was funded and in good shape, until politicians, Bush and this Congress, raided it and left IOUs. Now it is in serious trouble. You trust them with your well being in health care? They are going to run it cheaper? Impossible.

Will they borrow against the medical fund in the same fashion? Nothing to stop them.

These are 3 of the Tea Party issues. They don't have many. That's the real Tea Party

Medical savings accounts are a great idea, but your forgetting the fact that this bill, was created to control the healthcare $$.

 

[Benji2112]

Went out of town over the weekend and ran into a friend that I haven't seen in two years. She's suffering from a degenarative disease that is causing her to go blind. She has an extreme case, her siblings have it but not nearly as far along. Her doctors here have told her there's nothing she can do short of an eye transplant, which she doesn't qualify for, but found a specialist in Canda that can treat her and prolong her sight. This is her 2nd round of treatments.

She was pretty dead set against the idea of anything resembling socialized medicine, but was telling all of us this weekend that most of what she was sold about the Canadian system were lies.

I have a friend who is a Pediatric Cardiologist who works in Toronto. She used to work here in the States , but her husband was transfered , so she went. She is an expert in her field.

2 things really bother her about her job, and experience in the Canadien system.

The time it takes to get what here would be basic diagnostics , and the second would be that she knows, that many times she has to do a timely procedure to save a kids life, takes an agaonizing , stressfull time, and she knows the kids is dying more everyday, before she can get approval for the suite. The wait is a long time.

Want to see how to do what everyone wants as far as medicine, Study the Cleveland Clinic Foundation. Best place in the world, and ANYONE and everyone gets treated, regardless of ability to pay.

It is the model of how this should work. Even Obama said that. Yet, he goes in a different direction

Study it,it is a fantastic model of how to deliever healthcare, and they did it, complete change in less than 5 years .