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Old 10-01-2009, 01:59 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Finally seeing this?
Who has argued from the beginning that we need to put purchasing power back in the hands of the individual and family? That would be me.
Yes you did after finally no longer defending the current system and being asked for an alternative. But you've yet to address how your alternative helps those that aren't healthy, get sick a couple of months into their "savings", have lifelong diseases, pre-existing diseases, or those that still can't afford. Other than that it's perfect.


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And who has said the answer is MORE THIRD PARTY PAYMENTS in the form of the government, already the largest third party payer. That would be just about everyone else here including you.
The difference is that it's not a third party working in cohoots with all the others and pretending to be competitive, it's not profit over health, it's a third party that will require existing third parties to truly become competitive.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:08 PM   #77
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And how would you go about doing this?
Giving individuals the same tax breaks that employer based insurance policies receive. Discouraging "first dollar" policies that encourage overuse in favor of HSA's (Heath Savings Accounts) and high deductible major-medical policies that encourage thrifty shopping as in other goods and services.

That's the short answer. In so many words can you explain why this isn't the answer and more government is?
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:26 PM   #78
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That's the short answer. In so many words can you explain why this isn't the answer and more government is?
Because it really only helps the healthy that have been putting into that account for a long time.

In so many words can you explain how it doesn't?
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:26 PM   #79
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In so many words can you explain how it doesn't?
I didn't expect an answer...
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:47 AM   #80
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It's not a free market because of third party payers.

No drug company would survive selling $230 inhalers if their only purchasers were cash customers. Proof. Prescription drugs that go over-the-counter, and are no longer covered by insurance, routinely sell for 1/4 to 1/3 of their prescription price. Why? Because they now have to compete for the dollar of a consumer looking for the best value. When you have a $10 copay you don't care how much a drug actually costs.


but if i need a certain inhaler, and i do, and my doctor prescribes it for me, and he does, then i'm stuck with the $230.

it's not like i can just go without it or comparison shop and find a nicer color.
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:52 AM   #81
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Seems like we're getting closer to mandatory insurance, not free health care.

Medical premiums could still be a 'heavy lift' - Yahoo! News
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:09 AM   #82
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greatttttt.
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:17 AM   #83
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after paying $230 for an inhaler today, i really want my public fucking option.



and, yes, i am totally insured -- that's more than my premium.



nothing like the good ol' red, white, & blue dick being jammed in your ass.
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:25 PM   #84
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but if i need a certain inhaler, and i do, and my doctor prescribes it for me, and he does, then i'm stuck with the $230.

it's not like i can just go without it or comparison shop and find a nicer color.
I understand your frustration and anger, really I do as I deal with it daily. It's why no one in health care is saying reform is not necessary. But believe it or not the problem CAN be made worse with the wrong reform. So let's not do that just to say we did something.

PS, be sure and check with your insurance to see if there is a formulary, bioequivalent or alternative drug they WILL pay for.
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Old 10-04-2009, 05:45 PM   #85
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I understand your frustration and anger, really I do as I deal with it daily. It's why no one in health care is saying reform is not necessary. But believe it or not the problem CAN be made worse with the wrong reform. So let's not do that just to say we did something.

PS, be sure and check with your insurance to see if there is a formulary, bioequivalent or alternative drug they WILL pay for.


i agree on the above point, but i think that's pretty vague. we all want the right reform, i just don't see any alternatives being put forth by the GOP. the point seems to be the make health care "Obama's Waterloo" as they wanted, and to a degree, they have succeeded.

i do need to call my insurance company. it's my usual inhaler, i am baffled as to why the cost has skyrocketed.

but i'm lucky. yes, it sucks to pay $230, but i do have the money to cover that. i don't know what other people do.
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:01 PM   #86
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i agree on the above point, but i think that's pretty vague. we all want the right reform, i just don't see any alternatives being put forth by the GOP. the point seems to be the make health care "Obama's Waterloo" as they wanted, and to a degree, they have succeeded.
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Old 10-04-2009, 07:56 PM   #87
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Seems like we're getting closer to mandatory insurance, not free health care.

Medical premiums could still be a 'heavy lift' - Yahoo! News
Sad, but I think you're probably right. My prediction is everyone gets coverage of some sort (the mandated part will make it through--in insurance company lobbyists will see to that). The gov. will be forced to pick up the tab for those that can't afford to buy their own. In the end it will costs the taxpayers more, health care costs in general will not decrease, the Republicans will blame Obama (as if THIS was what he wanted all along) and hope to coast that blame back into the majority in next years elections?

Who wins? Nobody. Well except for the insurance companies.
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Old 10-04-2009, 08:36 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
Seems like we're getting closer to mandatory insurance, not free health care.

Medical premiums could still be a 'heavy lift' - Yahoo! News

Quote:
Under the Baucus bill, a family of four making $63,000 would have to pay 11 percent of its income for health insurance, according to Kaiser.
how does a family of four get by on $63,000 to begin with?
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Old 10-04-2009, 08:37 PM   #89
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Well except for the insurance companies.
Isn't that what the tea partiers always wanted?
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:53 AM   #90
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NY Times

October 4, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
Dad’s Life or Yours? You Choose

By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

So what would you do if your mom or dad, or perhaps your sister or brother, needed a kidney donation and you were the one best positioned to donate?

Most of us would worry a little and then step forward. But not so fast. Because of our dysfunctional health insurance system, a disgrace that nearly half of all members of Congress seem determined to cling to, stepping up to save a loved one can ruin your own chance of ever getting health insurance.

That wrenching trade-off is another reminder of the moral bankruptcy of our existing insurance system. It’s one more reason to pass robust reform this year.

Over the last week I’ve been speaking to David Waddington, a 58-year-old wine retailer in Dallas, along with his wife and two sons. I’d love to know what the opponents of health reform think families like this should do.

Mr. Waddington has polycystic kidney disease, or PKD, a genetic disorder that leads to kidney failure. First he lost one kidney, and then the other. A year ago, he was on dialysis and desperately needed a new kidney. Doctors explained that the best match — the one least likely to be rejected — would perhaps come from Travis or Michael, his two sons, then ages 29 and 27.

Travis and Michael each had a 50 percent chance of inheriting PKD. And if pre-donation testing revealed that one of them had the disorder, that brother might never be able to get health insurance. As a result, their doctors had advised not getting tested. After all, new research suggests that lack of insurance increases a working-age person’s risk of dying in any given year by 40 percent.

“At the time David needed a transplant, the people closest to him couldn’t even offer a lifesaving donation — for insurance reasons,” said Mr. Waddington’s wife, Susan.

Travis, who is living in New York and working toward a math doctorate, is anguished at having to weigh insurance obstacles against the chance to save his dad.

“Can you put a price on your father’s life?” he asked. “My brother and I talked it over privately, and agreed that we should both go ahead and get tested anyway. It seemed like the only course of action. We presented our plan to our parents, and of course Mom immediately shot it down, with Dad firmly behind her.

“We had to respect their right to want to protect us. But it was enraging to be in that situation, and to be completely impotent to do anything to help. I told myself a number of times that we would reconsider the issue of testing if Dad’s dialysis stopped working before he got a transplant.”

David Waddington finally got that transplant when a kidney from a deceased donor became available. But our insurance system has had other excruciating consequences for the Waddingtons. Though PKD has no cure as such, there are experimental medications that may delay kidney problems. To get access to the medications, a patient must be tested — and since Travis and Michael Waddington don’t dare get tested, they don’t have access to these medications.

“The only way to do it is to lie about your name during testing, to use a fictitious name,” Susan Waddington said. “That was the advice we got from a major person in the field. We didn’t do that.”

The Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act, passed last year, should eventually help people get access to health insurance even if they have a genetic predisposition to a disease. But insurance companies will still be free to discriminate against people who show symptoms of those diseases.

That’s what’s happening now with Michael. For years, he and Travis were afraid to mention to physicians their 50 percent chance of inheriting PKD, but recently Michael began suffering pains and went to the emergency room. After examining him and ordering tests, the doctor asked him, “Have you ever heard of PKD?”

“I felt the jig was up, and I could disclose my knowledge,” Michael said, so he told the doctor about his father.

The broader problem is this: Our broken system leads Americans to spend 16 percent of our national income on health care, twice as much as in parts of Europe, yet with maternal mortality rates and child mortality rates twice those of the best-performing countries. Lack of insurance is linked to nearly 45,000 unnecessary deaths a year, according to a peer-reviewed study to be published in the December issue of The American Journal of Public Health.

None of this seems to move members of Congress who oppose health reform. They have first-rate health care for themselves and so perhaps don’t appreciate how their posturing forces people like the Waddingtons into impossible situations. Let’s hope they find it in their hearts to overhaul an existing insurance system that is the disgrace of the industrialized world.
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