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Old 06-29-2010, 11:03 PM   #706
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Yes. I neither have children, nor ride in ambulances, but the benefits to society from having both educated citizens and emergency care far outweigh the negatives of any tax subsidies of either of these things.
I agree with that . totally.

Also , in my County, we also pay a 6 billion dollar healthcare Levy. I agree with that to. Healthy people do the same. The County does not tell us how to treat people.

Obamacare is not the answer. it is a tough problem, but Government, cannot do this for the Dr, or the Patient. It is not what they say it is.

I lost my health insurance once, because an idiot Dr didn't write 1 sentence note. It sucks, and not one Dr would say this is a great system. But what is coming is far , far worse. Just like a faceless person in an insurance company cubicle, there will be a faceless person in a cubicle in a Federal department , making the same choices. For you.

At least the States can regulate the insurance companies, although some are better than others. Who is going to regulate your Government Healthcare? The Government. Who will be watching your treatment? Who do you complain to? No one.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:07 PM   #707
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Government can and will do things to you the insurance Companies cannot.
Name one.


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One other thing. One of the highest cost associated with higher medical cost is Lawsuits. OBGYN's are sued and get millions because the baby doesn't have the right color blue eyes. So where is the reins on the Evil trial lawyers?

We do more tests than we should because if we dont CYA , the Attorneys are going to sue us for not doing them. This is the close first reason why costs are skyrocketing. Problem is, Political contributions by the law associations. Where is Lawyer reform? You know how much difference that would make? That alone would save BILLIONS !
Then why aren't conservatives trying for tort refrom? This is a separate issue from health care. I wonder if someone will be honest about THIS issue?
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:07 PM   #708
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could you be more specific? these sound suspiciously like talking points, and i know you work in health care, so you wouldn't just be repeating what you've heard, would you?

you also seem to think that health care is just breast implants and contact lenses.

don't really have much of a choice to purchase said "goods and services" when your 6-year old gets cancer or if you have ever been rushed to the ER on a stretcher and spent a week in the ICU.



(and i still love the anti-poor resentment -- yes, those are the fuckers who are gaming the system, the poor people who get hit by cars and can't afford insurance and have the nerve to rack up $45,000 in hospital costs -- THOSE are the people who are ruining America! not the insurance companies! not Wall Street! the POORS!)
"when your 6-year old gets cancer "

Every state, has Federal Money to insure every kid. If the kid doesn't have it, it's because the parent hasn't gone to get them signed up.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:11 PM   #709
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Every state, has Federal Money to insure every kid. If the kid doesn't have it, it's because the parent hasn't gone to get them signed up.
I'll ask. Someone has to. LINK??

And, isn't this the dreaded, evil, SOCIALIST, GOVERNMENT insurance???
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:14 PM   #710
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Are you sure you're in the medical industry? How do you have no clue what I'm talking about?

You missed my point completely! Do you not understand that if you want insurance sold across state lines you would need the same healthcare regulations and defintions? This is lost on INDY, but you get this don't you?

So if you want this, you would have to give this power over to the federal government.




I'll stick with my personal experience of working the industry.

But thanks...

Any word on those links yet?
You would need 3,200 pages to stop the pre-exiting conditions clause, or benefit restricions? I don't think so. it is not that complicated.
Each state has different DL requirements, but if ____ happens in one, they have worked it out with a very simple process to honor, or transfer a DL from 1 state to the other. They do it with car titles also.

You don't need the feds for that, no
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:15 PM   #711
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Actually, routine and minor procedures make up the vast majority of health care patient visits. Health insurance should be no different than any other insurance and thusly reserved for "emergencies," "cancer" and "$45,000 hospital costs." That's the way it used to work. Back when health insurance was known as "hospitalization insurance" or "major medical." The rest you just expected to pay for and market forces kept prices for those services affordable.
Well then you would have to eliminate all your precious free market device and pharma companies because few would be able to afford a simple broken finger, diabetes, or preventative care.


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Wrong and Benji can back me up here. Except for illegals, the "poor" are largely covered by government insurance programs. Actually, you might be surprised who makes up much of the 'uninsured" in this country.
Well this isn't exactly true either... but I'm sure if you were honest with yourself you know that.

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Actually, it's amazing how many physicians and hospitals now offer "cash" discounts. Many are, in fact, opting completely out of insurance. Medicaid, medicare and private. Wanna talk about paperwork reduction!!
How many doctors outside of the "elective" category do you know who do this?
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:17 PM   #712
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"when your 6-year old gets cancer "

Every state, has Federal Money to insure every kid. If the kid doesn't have it, it's because the parent hasn't gone to get them signed up.
False once again.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:17 PM   #713
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Actually, routine and minor procedures make up the vast majority of health care patient visits. Health insurance should be no different than any other insurance and thusly reserved for "emergencies," "cancer" and "$45,000 hospital costs." That's the way it used to work. Back when health insurance was known as "hospitalization insurance" or "major medical." The rest you just expected to pay for and market forces kept prices for those services affordable.
In theory, I agree with this. Practically, I'm not so sure. Look, I grew up with out health insurance. We just didn't go to the doctor. I never had annual checkups, never went to the dentist even once as a child. We relied on God to care for us, and He did. My mom who is 63 years old, self-employed, and currently has a lump in her breast is uninsured. I think she should get it looked at, she doesn't want to because she can't afford it. I actually went online to find out what it would cost her to get a mammogram (thinking maybe my wife and I could pick up the tab)--$500. A biopsy will run between $1000 and $5000. She doesn't have that kind of money just lying around and neither do I. She says she's had "scares" before and it always turned out to be nothing, and she doesn't have the money any way, so it sounds like she's just going to ignore it and hope it goes away. I'll tell you, INDY, it sucks.

Here's the thing--if you can't afford health costs and you don't have insurance, you simply go without. . .until you can't afford to anymore. At which point the costs are much higher than they would have been. I agree that the concept of insuring "basic maintanence" is not effective, but from experience I can tell you that simply taking away the insurance for those things isn't a realistic solution either.



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Wrong and Benji can back me up here. Except for illegals, the "poor" are largely covered by government insurance programs. Actually, you might be surprised who makes up much of the 'uninsured" in this country.
But isn't the argument that you don't WANT the government using your tax money to cover these poor. If it were up to you, somone like my sister--who is on Medicaid-- is in the hospital tonight 37 weeks pregnant and her platlet count dropping daily for reasons the doctors can't figure out (She's at 40,000 right now), should be out on the streets not stealing your money?

Give me a fucking break.. . .

sorry, everybody. This is just all very real and personal to me right now. It's not just talking heads on TV anymore.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:19 PM   #714
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You would need 3,200 pages to stop the pre-exiting conditions clause, or benefit restricions? I don't think so. it is not that complicated.
Each state has different DL requirements, but if ____ happens in one, they have worked it out with a very simple process to honor, or transfer a DL from 1 state to the other. They do it with car titles also.

You don't need the feds for that, no
Let me ask you a simple question. How is Podiatry defined in your state?



A test to see if you really know wtf you're talking about...
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:21 PM   #715
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Maybe we should amend the Constitution to enumerate the right of every child to have responsible, loving parents. But you can't have that any more than you can the right to healthcare because someone has to provide them for you.

Can you demand the goods or services of another human being without them losing some of their liberty?

The first 4 minutes of this clip are the best 4 minutes I've ever seen on The Glenn Beck Show. And Glenn Beck was sick that day.

YouTube - Health Care Insurance is NOT A RIGHT - Part 1 of 2
One line in Angela's post, and the idea behind this, which I hear often is what really gets me.

"When an insurance company refuses to cover a BABY because it's "too overweight" or whatever BS reason that one company gave, a baby who has absolutely no control over its eating habits,..... "

If a baby is too Overweight, and it's a baby, which means I would imagine that it is not getting up at 4:00 am to make Hostess cupcakes and eating them by the 100's right.

The PARENTS have the responsbility for the baby's eating habits !
Is the Government going to do that for the mother and father too? No personal responsibility involved?????
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:23 PM   #716
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Fair enough. So, if you choose not to purchase health insurance and can't pay for care, die at home. I wanted to suggest to the guy outside the library petitioning for Ohio to be exempt from the new healthcare reform bill that every person complaining about being required to buy health care sign a waiver just like the one you described.
That's freedom I guess. If you choose to smoke and develop lung cancer who's fault is that?

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Doctors and other health care professionals understand that they are not merely providing a "good". It's more than that.
Which may explain why there are thousands of free clinics in this country with volunteer physicians, nurses, dentists, pharmacists and therapists giving of their own time to provide care to those "bloodying the place up" with no means to pay for it. Although in all honesty they might be referred to an E.R.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:25 PM   #717
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Cleveland Clinic is the model of how to do this. Everyone gets treated, and it is one of the best hospitals in the World.

Little Marcel, who's Grandmother got her feet cut off when she had cancer, but no where to be treated.. other than the Cleveland Clinic . Where she was treated for free? Remember her? and little M sitting their when Obama signed this bill ?.

Look at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation. There is your anser... But they don't want that . Oh no. It works to good.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:26 PM   #718
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Although in all honesty they might be referred to an E.R.
I was referring to the ER docs, not to those volunteering at free clinics. I don't think there's an ER doctor in the country that would suggest that they only save the lives of those who can pay. Because after all, medicine is a "good" not a right.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:30 PM   #719
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Wrong and Benji can back me up here. Except for illegals,
I missed this reference to the Mexicans!
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:30 PM   #720
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That's freedom I guess. If you choose to smoke and develop lung cancer who's fault is that?



Which may explain why there are thousands of free clinics in this country with volunteer physicians, nurses, dentists, pharmacists and therapists giving of their own time to provide care to those "bloodying the place up" with no means to pay for it. Although in all honesty they might be referred to an E.R.
Amen again. If I could bill by the hour as a Lawyer could, I would be a very wealthy man .

There are 1,000's and there are millions who donate many , many hours.

We do it gladly. Thanks for posting that . People don't have a clue
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