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Old 06-29-2010, 10:25 PM   #691
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could you be more specific? these sound suspiciously like talking points, and i know you work in health care, so you wouldn't just be repeating what you've heard, would you?
Let us know when you get specific answers.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:31 PM   #692
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i guess i really should have shopped around before getting into that ambulance.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:31 PM   #693
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NO, actually if you wanted insurance sold across state lines you would have to give DC more power and insurance less.

We've gone over this a hundred times, the fact that you constantly ignore it and keep grasping to that Hannity talking point just shows you don't understand the issue.
States have the power to regulate insurance, not the Federal Government. Sean Hannity wasn't born when this notion was concieved.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:33 PM   #694
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I deal with insurance companies everyday, I work in healthcare. I know exactly what kind of profits they make, and you are way off my friend.
Try Dunn and Bradstreet. more reliable than ACORN
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:35 PM   #695
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i guess i really should have shopped around before getting into that ambulance.
Your County set's the rates for Ambulance/EMS cost. It is usually subsidized by property taxes.

I pay for schools but don't have any kids. Is that right ?
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:40 PM   #696
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Your County set's the rates for Ambulance/EMS cost. It is usually subsidized by property taxes.

I pay for schools but don't have any kids. Is that right ?
Yes. I neither have children, nor ride in ambulances, but the benefits to society from having both educated citizens and emergency care far outweigh the negatives of any tax subsidies of either of these things.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:41 PM   #697
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nevermind
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:47 PM   #698
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I don't think it's constitutional to require the purchase of a good. But what I would do is change the crazy notion that you can just show up for healthcare and expect not to pay for it. If you don't purchase homeowners insurance and your house burns down; good luck waiting for someone to build you a new one for free. Same with auto insurance.

From the day you're no longer covered under your parents insurance (which I think when fully implemented will be 35 years old under Obamacare), You must either show proof of insurance on your income tax returns or sign a waiver allowing hospitals, doctors, NPs, PTs and everyone else that may treat you should you show up at their door with no insurance an opportunity to garnish your wages until such time as your bill is paid.
Fair enough. So, if you choose not to purchase health insurance and can't pay for care, die at home. I wanted to suggest to the guy outside the library petitioning for Ohio to be exempt from the new healthcare reform bill that every person complaining about being required to buy health care sign a waiver just like the one you described.

If you're so pissed about having to purchase coverage, promise you won't seek treatment for yourself or your children that you can't pay for out of pocket.

But of course, when you're kid breaks his neck in a football game and they call the ambulance, go ahead and stop the paramedics from treating him. Go ahead and tell them "hey, we didn't want the government telling us we had to buy coverage and we can't pay for this kind of injury, so go on back to the hospital." And then tell your kid, "Sorry kid, you'll have to tough it out. We won't be STEALING other people's money at the hospital."

I guess that's what you'd call the courage of your convictions.

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Maybe we should amend the Constitution to enumerate the right of every child to have responsible, loving parents. But you can't have that any more than you can the right to healthcare because someone has to provide them for you.

Can you demand the goods or services of another human being without them losing some of their liberty?

The first 4 minutes of this clip are the best 4 minutes I've ever seen on The Glenn Beck Show. And Glenn Beck was sick that day.

YouTube - Health Care Insurance is NOT A RIGHT - Part 1 of 2
It's fascinating to watch these guys at work. They really are good. If you don't pay close attention, it would be very easy to find yourself thinking "Wow, hey, yeah that's right. That totally makes sense!"

But this right/good dichotomy is simply false. Health care isn't exactly a right, but neither is it quite a mere commodity.

Here's where the misrepresentation is: People don't just show up the doctor and demand, for example, that they get their annual checkup for free, and the doctor is compelled to give it to them. People don't show up at the dentist and say, hey I want my wisdom teeth out but I can't pay for it, so give it to me free--and the dentist does so. People do show up in emergency rooms with life-threatening conditions and there isn't a doctor worthy of the name who would look at a person whose life is in immediate jeapordy and ask: "Wait, wait. . I know you're bleeding out and all, but can you pay for this? No? Then what the fuck are you doing here? You've got some nerve showing up here bloodying the place up and you knew you couldn't pay. Get outta here. . ." Doctors and other health care professionals understand that they are not merely providing a "good". It's more than that.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:49 PM   #699
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States have the power to regulate insurance, not the Federal Government. Sean Hannity wasn't born when this notion was concieved.
Are you sure you're in the medical industry? How do you have no clue what I'm talking about?

You missed my point completely! Do you not understand that if you want insurance sold across state lines you would need the same healthcare regulations and defintions? This is lost on INDY, but you get this don't you?

So if you want this, you would have to give this power over to the federal government.


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Try Dunn and Bradstreet. more reliable than ACORN
I'll stick with my personal experience of working the industry.

But thanks...

Any word on those links yet?
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:53 PM   #700
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I don't think it's constitutional to require the purchase of a good.
What about this nonsense about being required by law to have car insurance? That violation of your constitutional rights bother you too?
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:53 PM   #701
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Yeah, I heard that, too, that the AARP is still supporting this. As are a lot of doctors-I seem to recall polls stating that support for the bill among doctors was quite high.

I'm very confused as to why Republicans/conservatives are so against this bill. You DO realize that it incorporates quite a few Republican ideas, right? And some that are actually good ones at that? So if you really have a problem with the bill, maybe you're yelling at the wrong group of people, or the wrong person. It's not a perfect bill, no, but there is some good stuff in there.

Angela
Doing something is in agreement with every Dr. This though is rejected. It isn't what they tell you it is.

You will pay the insurance comapany,or you will pay the Fine, or you will pay the taxes.. One way or another, you will pay for it. The cheaper option is not to pay it to the Federal Government thru taxes. Once a tax, always a tax, and it goes up and up and up. So it is one option or the others. Control . Can Government treat you better than your Dr? No. No better or no worse than the insurance companies. Government can and will do things to you the insurance Companies cannot.

I said earlier, this is a package deal. Indy said about tax returns and the fine. It's true. Tomorrow, you see another 2,000 page bill they most likely will pass. They will go into your bank account and take it. You will pay one way or another.

One other thing. One of the highest cost associated with higher medical cost is Lawsuits. OBGYN's are sued and get millions because the baby doesn't have the right color blue eyes. So where is the reins on the Evil trial lawyers?

We do more tests than we should because if we dont CYA , the Attorneys are going to sue us for not doing them. This is the close first reason why costs are skyrocketing. Problem is, Political contributions by the law associations. Where is Lawyer reform? You know how much difference that would make? That alone would save BILLIONS !
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:58 PM   #702
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you also seem to think that health care is just breast implants and contact lenses.

don't really have much of a choice to purchase said "goods and services" when your 6-year old gets cancer or if you have ever been rushed to the ER on a stretcher and spent a week in the ICU.
Actually, routine and minor procedures make up the vast majority of health care patient visits. Health insurance should be no different than any other insurance and thusly reserved for "emergencies," "cancer" and "$45,000 hospital costs." That's the way it used to work. Back when health insurance was known as "hospitalization insurance" or "major medical." The rest you just expected to pay for and market forces kept prices for those services affordable.

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(and i still love the anti-poor resentment -- yes, those are the fuckers who are gaming the system, the poor people who get hit by cars and can't afford insurance and have the nerve to rack up $45,000 in hospital costs -- THOSE are the people who are ruining America! not the insurance companies! not Wall Street! the POORS!)
Wrong and Benji can back me up here. Except for illegals, the "poor" are largely covered by government insurance programs. Actually, you might be surprised who makes up much of the 'uninsured" in this country.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:00 PM   #703
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could you be more specific? these sound suspiciously like talking points, and i know you work in health care, so you wouldn't just be repeating what you've heard, would you?

you also seem to think that health care is just breast implants and contact lenses.

don't really have much of a choice to purchase said "goods and services" when your 6-year old gets cancer or if you have ever been rushed to the ER on a stretcher and spent a week in the ICU.



(and i still love the anti-poor resentment -- yes, those are the fuckers who are gaming the system, the poor people who get hit by cars and can't afford insurance and have the nerve to rack up $45,000 in hospital costs -- THOSE are the people who are ruining America! not the insurance companies! not Wall Street! the POORS!)
I think I mentioned this very thing earlier. In the argument I had with my friend, we began with the issue of whether healthcare is a right or privilege, and it did come down to exactly what you've described--I don't want my money paying for people who are lazy, shiftless etc i.e. poor.. After all if that poor person had gone out and got a JOB they wouldn't have been hit by the car in the first place. . .It's ugly.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:02 PM   #704
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One other thing. One of the highest cost associated with higher medical cost is Lawsuits. OBGYN's are sued and get millions because the baby doesn't have the right color blue eyes. So where is the reins on the Evil trial lawyers?

show me this.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:03 PM   #705
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We often discount, and don't expect them to pay it all off, but we put the idea in their head that it isn't free, nor could it ever be. We actually get more people who pay that way. We write off the rest. It's those small payments that allows us to not go broke, and often makes up the % we can't write off.
Actually, it's amazing how many physicians and hospitals now offer "cash" discounts. Many are, in fact, opting completely out of insurance. Medicaid, medicare and private. Wanna talk about paperwork reduction!!
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