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Old 06-29-2010, 01:06 PM   #661
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Like a complete repeal.

So how's come the "doctor fix" wasn't in the actual Health Care Reform Bill passed earlier this year? Why were Republican amendments to do so defeated?
Because they( Harry and Co ) tried to sneak it in last week , including it into HR 4213 which was the extension of Unemployment benefits, and also, reparations for Unhappy Indians, Black Farmers,and 500 million tax breaks to Study making Coke ( not sure if the drug or the softdrink ) a fuel that would run cars... many other strange additions.

Specifically to the 21 % to the Doctors, they ( the majority) need it to not be there, or the numbers don't work as to the "cost benefit" of coming up with this(healthcare) in the first place.


It isn't about healthcare.
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:10 PM   #662
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Just like AARP
More lies...

Health Care Reform - Universal, Public, US, New Government Health Care Plan - AARP
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:45 PM   #663
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Which is my whole point. Employer-provided insurance is NOT guaranteed pre-Obamacare.

I did read your article, and I read the full text at the link you provided and it does not explain why costs to employers are going to skyrocket. It simply states that it will. I want to know where the increased costs are going to come from.

Also, on a more careful reading, the small business owner who spends about $8000 per employee appears to be spending that amount NOW. Its not a projected amount that the owner will have to spend when the Health Care Reform law kicks in. However, the owner will eventually be able to pay a $2000 fine and avoid having to spend the larger amount he or she currently spends. But right now the owner ISN'T required to provide insurance for his or her employees so why is the owner doing it? They could just stop providing insurance right now and it wouldn't cost them anything until the new law kicks in.
" Employer-provided insurance is NOT guaranteed pre-Obamacare." It is not guaranteed post Obama care either. Matter of fact ,in most Companies, you can take it as a given that most of them will pay the fine , and let you travel to the program that in everything but name only is a Public mandate .

Employers provide health coverage as a benefit to attract better "talent" . Obama care will not work unless everyone is in it. Healthy people pay for sick people in all forms of insurance. I know the 3-5 % profit the evil insurance compaies make is outright theft, but by any standards, it is a very low yield.

The "Public option has been the Holy grail of the democratic party for years. There is one single reason why.

Unions.

If there is a public options, all the pension liabilities, which are ALL underfunded, severely , but also include healthcare for GM, Teachers, Muni-workers, state and federal employees, and other Unionized business's, which are in the 100's of TRILLIONS of dollars "short" the healthcare obligations go from the Union Funds, to the Federal Government Unions are off the hook. Which is good for them, the money hasn't been there for years .

It has always been the payback . why do unions spend billions of dollars to get person A elected over person B? Same reason every other group does.

The democratic party, going back years any one remember when Hilary tried to do this ? ) is only for payback to the Unions. It releases them from their HUGE obligations, involving TONS of money that has been long gone.

So, either the Unions come up with the money for their members healthcare, or you elect someone that will get legislation passed that puts it on the Government, which is exactly what Obamacare is. They could "approve a public option", as the bill would not have passed, but you can create taxes and language that make it essentially a public option, as employers are either going to pay the fine and not provide it ( most of them will ) a few will provide it as a way to attract "star" employee's , but the majority is goiing to be covered under Obamacare aka Public option.

This has been a left democratic dream for years. There are better ways to insure everyone. This was not it.

Why didn't the " Caddilac tax make the final bill? They are not going to vote to tax their own great plans now are they?

This is a total union deal. The majority of Hospital workers are union, and I have been to the meetings when this happend.

More than half the drs will walk. count on it. Any moms try to get their children vaccinated lately? Most GP's don't give them any more. cost 75.00 to give one ( cost of the shot alone) and insurance, or the government will pay 30-50. That is a loss. How many Drs, or regular business operate when losing 25-30 % on everything you "produce" ?

Economics 101 . You can't.

Lance Armstrong CEO on Obmacare " well, I guess it is better than nothing ". Lost half his membership that day. How many people have died, or will die of cancer, because of a bill that will do nothing for them for 4 years? This is good? If they are sooo compassionate and worried about Marcel 's mother ( who was being treated for free at the Cleveland Clinic) why does it not help anyone for 4 years?

Think about that .

One more thing. How many women at 40 years of age have tried to get a momogram lately ? do you know that coverage has gone to 50? I know there was the big fuss about the recommendation for the age 50 tests, and they let it go quiet, but go try to get one. Especially if you are uninsured. here are many places to get them for free, but if you are under 50, your not getting one. So it started but they said " no, we will let that go" .

The majority of women who get breast cancer, get it between 40 and 50. So this is better? It is rationing.

People pining their hopes on this, better get ready for a rough wake up call . It is not what it seems. Not even close.

It is not the fault of one party. It is both.

They cant even do the model , Ma right. It is totally bankrupt in 3 years . Take a look at Mass. that is what your getting . Good luck with it.

we will just move to Costa Rica, Panama etc or retire. I drive a 13 year old car, so I dont need to make a zillion dollars , but breaking even on my medical cost would be nice. I already see so many people for free(most Drs do ) , and do so gladly, but nobody expects someone to work for free do they? Should I have to pay to go to work? You know what my Malpractice is per year? Think about an OBGYN MP insurance is. That's why Mississippi, Ark, , you cant find a single one . Not a single one.

You will see that everywhere, and it wont be only OBGYN. You wont find a GP, and more than half of any specialty. Gone.

Be careful what you wished for and you got. It isn't what you think it is.
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:52 PM   #664
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3-5% profit for insurance companies?

How is it that so many "doctors" don't know how the current insurance system works? It blows my mind.
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:58 PM   #665
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HR4213 that is the bill number. US Senate . READ IT . They transcribe the record. Word for word.

How many people have left the AARP? It is an insurance suplement now.

I don't know any DR who is in the AMA now. 18 % would be high as of today.

The Drs are going to walk , but suely, you know all this better than I would.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:03 PM   #666
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Your quoting the AARP as the authority of truth on this healthcare bill?

You think they are gong to put on the front page of their site

' You are SOOL if you need a hip replacement at 60? "

You ever think why I can do the same procedure in Panama, or Costa Rica for a 1/4 of what it would cost here in the States?

It is called the "markets" They don't have all the people, and Government in the middle.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:07 PM   #667
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Originally Posted by Benji2112 View Post
HR4213 that is the bill number. US Senate . READ IT . They transcribe the record. Word for word.
I have... Not sure what it has to do with your lies though
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How many people have left the AARP?
No more than average. AARP, consider the age group, it has a constantly turning rate of membership and there has not been any spike since the Health Care Reform.

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Originally Posted by Benji2112 View Post
I don't know any DR who is in the AMA now. 18 % would be high as of today.

The Drs are going to walk , but suely, you know all this better than I would.
I know quite a few in the AMA, and yes there are some that will walk and there are some that fully support it, and there are many that are in between; they support the concept but may not like some of the details.

I know here in SA it's about 50% of doctors and hospitals supporting it.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:10 PM   #668
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Your quoting the AARP as the authority of truth on this healthcare bill?
Are you being purposefully obtuse?

I'm quoting the AARP because you had said they are "done". They are still very strong and still supporting the bill.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:21 PM   #669
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I think this bit is worth taking into account. I don't exactly have sympathy for CEOs who whine about maybe having to pay a bit more-if they're running major businesses, I'm guessing they're able to afford parting with a bit of their earnings.

And I find it really hard to believe Karl Rove is all that concerned about middle class people like my family (who would be on the lower end of the middle class, upper-middle class we are not).

Also, Medicaid is a "second-class" health program? Again, were it not for Medicaid/Medicare, my family'd be really screwed in terms of hospital bills right now. They helped pay off quite a bit of our burden of bills.

Angela
First, the article is correct. Second, a CEO of a Restaurant chain that offers health insurance? That is rare in that industry. A Restaurant operates on an 8 % profit margin . 8 % !!!!

How many people can't find a full time job now? Most of them will tell you they are all temp. Wonder why? Have you ever thought about it?

You see what is going on right now? Today, as I type? You know why it is going on? I strongly urge you to find out what is happening right now, and why it is happening .

Medicaid is Bankrupt now. The population is aging, with a ton of "boomers about to hit that system. I will fight for it until my last breathe , as will many of us, but somehow, some way it has to be addressed. Throwing everyone into a "medicare" type program is not going to fix it, it will break it.
How would you propose they pay for those additional people, who are living longer BTW and will be on it longer?

Have you tried to get a mamogram lately?


Take some time today, and look at what is happening , as we speak and why .

Didnt the VP declare " the recession is over? " Adding jobs everyday. "Saved" 20 million of them yesterday... right . There is no such measurement in any form of economics called a saved Job.

How does Joe explain what is happening right now. Tomorrow ?

The stories, are being exposed as we speak. Right now. omeone in the big White House some explaining to do. He is at the line right now. It is his moment . This next speach will make him or break him.

He is out of excuses as of today. Pick any form of Business/economic information ( Bloomberg is on the team right? ) and listen to all the happy talk they are saying right now. None of it is happy talk. It is Holy S%&T time.

US Treasures at the lowest prices in history, AND the yields. That's good right ?
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:21 PM   #670
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Yeah, I heard that, too, that the AARP is still supporting this. As are a lot of doctors-I seem to recall polls stating that support for the bill among doctors was quite high.

I'm very confused as to why Republicans/conservatives are so against this bill. You DO realize that it incorporates quite a few Republican ideas, right? And some that are actually good ones at that? So if you really have a problem with the bill, maybe you're yelling at the wrong group of people, or the wrong person. It's not a perfect bill, no, but there is some good stuff in there.

Angela
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:24 PM   #671
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Are you being purposefully obtuse?

I'm quoting the AARP because you had said they are "done". They are still very strong and still supporting the bill.
I was refering to the defections of members. They lost about 60 % -65%of their membership over the healthcare bill,
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:29 PM   #672
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I was refering to the defections of members. They lost about 60 % -65%of their membership over the healthcare bill,
Please show me a link?

I won't hold my breath, I'm still waiting for all the others I've asked for...
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:38 PM   #673
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Matter of fact ,in most Companies, you can take it as a given that most of them will pay the fine , and let you travel to the program that in everything but name only is a Public mandate .
So far no one has been able to explain to me why this is going to happen, when companies could cut their employees loose from healthcare and not have to even a pay fine right now.

Is it that they'll be able to do so "guilt free" because they know the employees will have to purchase their own insurance on the "exchange"?
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:44 PM   #674
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3-5% profit for insurance companies?

How is it that so many "doctors" don't know how the current insurance system works? It blows my mind.
The numbers used and quoted by the left politicians, were produced and sourced during the healthcare debate by the Democrats, Harry Reid, etc were calculated by a group called HCAN. aka Health Care for America now . You can look up in the records of both house and senate as to where the 400 % profit numbers came from

Health Care for America now. Why does that sound like something I have heard before.... So the group that came up with these numbers, that were officially used to present what outrageous profits the health insurance Companies were making,Cited by Harry ried, Nancy Pelosi WEINER , Chuck , Uncle Teddy , all to PO the people into into Hating the profit sucking scum made 450 % a year were paid to do so by some group called Association of Community Organizations For Reform

Now....... lets see.... A -C O-R-N WOW !! Could it be true? The same ACORN ?

I am soo sorry, you must be right . I am going to fire my staff today and see if any of those ACORN people can increase my profits. Do they do Taxes and stuff too? God , I love this Country. I take everything I said earlier back. If ACORN said it, by god its the Gospel !! We know they You

Your healthcare costs, and the numbers to make it all work, were brought to you by ACORN ! Harry Ried even said so . He you too. I don't know why Insurance companies don't hire ACORN to do their books.

Or to get real , there is one way to calculate profits of an insurance company

The relevant profit measure is their profits per premium dollar collected. Those profits are a few pennies per contract dollar . Which means if everyone was 22 years old, they would keep more of the premium that was paid in. But it gets more complicated as the " pool "has older, or sicker people in it, that decrease the dollars ( or pennies ) left from what they take in.

That very formula is why HC by Government can't ever work. Unless EVERYONE is in it, and even then, there are more aging people with a longer life expectantly , who will need more meds, surgery check-ups and care which means more cost. One way to deal with it. Ration. Which way do you think they are going to go? Tax people at 90 % or ration?

Both if you let them get away with it. Be carefull what you wish for. Ask the people in the great white north. It's great if you break your toe, but if you have cancer... go somewhere else or die.

Yes, I have friends who work in UK, France, Canada , Germany all over. We talk about it. A lot . UK system is dying. They ration to save money.

BTW I have 5 people in my office for every 50 patients who do nothing but deal with medicare, medicaid, or an insurance company. What they allow, if I cannot pay for it myself, decides what happens to someone and what their care is , who one day may be you or someone you care for. Medicaid and Medicare do not always have your best interets at heart. They don't you .

Respectfully, it is you that has no idea what you have signed on for. I see it everyday .

ACORN did not save the world. Couldnt even save themselves. it is that honesty problem they have .

You think it was smart to base the healthcare "fix" on their imput? They had a large one. As I said before, this is for the Unions. Didn't ACORN have a close affiliation with SEIU... which Nurses belong too? " Yes they Did "
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:58 PM   #675
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It isn't about healthcare.
Multiple Obama bows to you my friend. You nailed it.
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