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Old 09-19-2009, 10:15 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
So I support a marketplace for private insurance companies overseen by the feds. Left-wing zealots distorted my remarks like they usually do"



this is what happens in the Netherlands and Switzerlands -- universal coverage is mandatory, and though it's all done by private insurance, it's *heavily* regulated by the government.

i could get behind that.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:03 PM   #32
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Well in a way this shows his change of heart but it also shows his ignorance.

As shown by INDY's posts the "free market" doesn't really exist.

Will a truly informed conservative ever step up?
So if "the free market doesn't really exist" how can we say that it's failed and that it's time to go to the bullpen for government-run heathcare?

1) Lift the law barring purchase of health insurance across state lines.
2) Eliminate mandates for coverage people don't want or feel they need.
3) Reform the tax code to reward, rather than punish, those that buy their own insurance.

To paraphrase Lennon (rather than Lenin).
All we are saying
Is give them a chance
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:21 PM   #33
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this is what happens in the Netherlands and Switzerlands -- universal coverage is mandatory, and though it's all done by private insurance, it's *heavily* regulated by the government.

i could get behind that.
I'm not sure their system would work in a country where a large portion of the population is, shall we say, more in tune with the entitlement, rights and equality thing than the civic duty, personal responsibility and freedom thing.

I'm all for consumer protection mandates but not mandates regulating price or the product.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:26 PM   #34
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b-b-but the insurance companies say free healthcare is SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!!!

we cant have that! God says socialism is a SINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN and you'll go to HELLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:38 PM   #35
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I'm not sure their system would work in a country where a large portion of the population is, shall we say, more in tune with the entitlement, rights and equality thing than the civic duty, personal responsibility and freedom thing.

I'm all for consumer protection mandates but not mandates regulating price or the product.


i am totally confused by this.

are you saying that there are proportionally more people in the US who are lazy and expect entitlements than there are in the Netherlands?

must be all those crackhead welfare Queens? those illegal immigrants?

not that there's *anything* racist about that.
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Old 09-19-2009, 01:00 PM   #36
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nevermind
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Old 09-19-2009, 01:07 PM   #37
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must be all those crackhead welfare Queens? those illegal immigrants?

not that there's *anything* racist about that.
Wow. Maureen Dowd has nothing on you when it comes to putting words in the mouths of those that you disagree with.

I could just as easily been talking about the just-out-of-college young professional that sees no need to buy insurance, gravely obese white families on Medicaid or all the senior citizens screaming "hands off my Medicare."

Or I could just be talking about the rhetoric of politicians and pundits in this debate.

But, the new narrative from the Left is that the healthcare debate has now become a "racial issue," so of course you hear (even though I don't actually say) is "welfare queen" and "illegal immigrant."

Kool-aid drinking after Labor Day is so out of season.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:27 PM   #38
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Wow. Maureen Dowd has nothing on you when it comes to putting words in the mouths of those that you disagree with.

I could just as easily been talking about the just-out-of-college young professional that sees no need to buy insurance, gravely obese white families on Medicaid or all the senior citizens screaming "hands off my Medicare."

Or I could just be talking about the rhetoric of politicians and pundits in this debate.

But, the new narrative from the Left is that the healthcare debate has now become a "racial issue," so of course you hear (even though I don't actually say) is "welfare queen" and "illegal immigrant."

Kool-aid drinking after Labor Day is so out of season.



firstly, "you lie," came as a direct result of speaking about illegal immigrants.

however, i just find it surprising that you think that socialist Stalin apologists have more get-up-and-go and can-do-attitude than red blooded Americans.

but, wow. you've surprised me. fair enough.
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:05 PM   #39
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So if "the free market doesn't really exist" how can we say that it's failed and that it's time to go to the bullpen for government-run heathcare?
It started out free and morphed into the bullshit we live in now. Seriously, you have to know this, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
1) Lift the law barring purchase of health insurance across state lines.
Do some research, THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HELPED PUT THIS IN PLACE! I've explained this several times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
2) Eliminate mandates for coverage people don't want or feel they need.
Like what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
3) Reform the tax code to reward, rather than punish, those that buy their own insurance.
Okay, but how exactly?
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:11 AM   #40
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Time for a little humor:

Protect Insurance Companies PSA
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:07 PM   #41
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Damn, above poster beat me to it

Enjoy!
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:32 PM   #42
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SAN FRANCISCO (CBS 5) ― When Daly City resident Rosalinda Miran-Ramirez woke up one morning in April to find her left breast bleeding from the nipple, she panicked. The shirt she had been sleeping in was saturated with blood. So her husband took her to the emergency room at Seton Medical Center.

"In my mind I know something serious is going on," said Miran-Ramirez. "I need to see a doctor."

Doctors found a tumor and initially told her she had breast cancer. A biopsy later proved that assumption false; the tumor was benign.

But Miran-Ramirez said the real shock came when her insurance company, Blue Shield of California HMO, which had initially approved the claim for the emergency room visit, reversed course and sent her a new bill three months later requiring her to pay the total charges for that visit: $2,791.00.

Why? Documents from Blue Shield indicate the company had reviewed the case and determined Miran-Ramirez "reasonably should have known that an emergency did not exist."
Listen gals, if you wake up and your nipples are bleeding, don't get so bloody hysterical, it's no biggie.

(The insurer relented once the shaming by the media began - typical)
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:42 PM   #43
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rights and equality thing
I believe these were the code words where Irvine was reading the racism between the lines. The examples you mentioned. . .young college grad etc wouldn't be demanding "rights and equality."

The people who are doing that are . . . not white. . .

But I generally avoid using the "opposition to health care reform/Obama is racism "argument, not because I don't think it's true, but because I don't think it is ALWAYS true and even when it might be true it's impossible to prove. So I just leave that argument off the table.

I think Obama does the same thing actually. Recall his response to Letterman's question on this issue.

You can disagree with his policies all you want, but you gotta admit the guy's a class act.
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:52 PM   #44
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Here's where I'm at these days on the health care debate:

I really think we need far more radical change than anything that is going to come out of Washington is going to provide.

The health insurance industry cannot be profitable and do what we want it to do. "Regular" health care needs to be decoupled from insurance altogether and that will never happen in this country.

What we will get is some watered-down, version of something that will mostly just cost us all a lot more.

I don't think that this means we should do nothing. The current situation is untenable. I'm just being in honest in saying I'm doubtful as to how effective any reform we get is going to be.
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Old 09-26-2009, 09:43 PM   #45
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But I generally avoid using the "opposition to health care reform/Obama is racism "argument, not because I don't think it's true, but because I don't think it is ALWAYS true and even when it might be true it's impossible to prove.
The way I see it, racism in this country only still exists in a broad standpoint because everyone is making everything a racial issue. Especially things that have nothing to do with race in the first place. And other things really don't matter. I don't care that Obamas the first black president. Does that make me a racist? No, I just don't care about the color of one's skin.
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