MANDATORY health insurance, part 2

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Stubbornly carrying out the will of the majority of Americans who; in elections, polls and town halls were screaming, "Kill this bill and start over."



have you seen the polls recently?

but, while we're at it, let's just put every issue to a vote. do away with the lawmakers.

it works so well in California.
 
Stubbornly carrying out the will of the majority of Americans who; in elections, polls and town halls were screaming, "Kill this bill and start over."

Well I would say the (very narrow) majority of Americans who disapprove of the health care bill as one whole piece of legislation known as "Obamacare" do so because they believe what the Republicans have said about it. Death panels, government takeover of your doctor's office, massive tax increases on the middle class, massive cuts to medicare, scary socialism, etc.

When you take out the main provisions individually, the majority of Americans(close to 60% in some polls) support health care reform.

Not a damn person would approve of it if it were how the right characterized it, and not a damn person, myself included would approve of things like the cornhusker kickback(though much worse was done to get votes under Republicans).

What the Republicans have done is use scare tactics, falsehoods and embellishment of the ugly parts of the process(again, inexcusable but present in almost all legislation) to tag the whole effort with a toxic label.

I do not let the Democrats off without blame here. I never heard a one of them, until very recently, go out and say "health care reform is good, and should pass because of x, y and z specific provisions that will be helpful to your families." No repetition of the main, good points of the bill, just talking in broad terms about a bill that had already been framed by the Republicans over the summer of 2009.

My frustration with the Dems now runs deep in that, with the right amount of control over their message, health care reform could have been passed in summer 2009 and we could have moved on to other important issues.

Safe to say no one calls me up before these decisions are made, though!! :)
 
Romney defends Massachusetts health care law - The Boston Globe

Just in case there was any doubt left that this is the most disingenuous, slimy, flip flopping excuse for a candidate we have seen in a very, very long time.

All this guy has ever been is a slippery, slick opportunist.

Notice he can not point out the obvious, major difference between Romneycare and Obamacare because it reflects poorly on him and his "fiscal conservative" credentials! Obama actually addressed costs, while Romney ignored this. That, for better or worse, is the only real substantive difference between the two.

If you look at the article, all of the objective outside advisers involved in the passage of both laws uniformly call bullshit on Romney!

Romney's ability to "get" anything is truly gone if he thinks that a pathetic showing in a 2008 primary where the base was far from enthusiastic about the ultimate winner is a sign that the country will be very receptive to him in 2012!

My Dad, who has passed on, would always say back in the early and mid 00s when Romney was governor of MA: "he has reached the highest office he will ever attain." And all of his political friends- Democrat and Republican, agreed. Us Massachusetts people find it quite amusing that Romney is talked about so much in the national forum. He was almost uniformly viewed as a joke and a lightweight when he was hanging out here. If you know anything about MA politics, you know that represented a stark contrast from popular Republican Governors Bill Weld and Paul Cellucci.

Despite his attempts at redoing his image 60 million times since then, Romney is no closer to proving my dad wrong!
 
i just meant that as much am radio and polls don't represent america, the big news machines do not either.

Right, I think that's why it's dangerous to claim anyone has the pulse on what the majority think.

Most polls ask maybe 1200 people a few questions, and they hope that statisically that will represent the people.

Even our government is a game of representation. We vote for someone, we hear their platform and they go... Have you ever been polled by your Senator on what you think of particular issues?

So I find it laughable that anyone thinks they know the pulse of the majority, and even if you did, the majority isn't always right.
 
I get polled all the time.

I think it is because I am in that group. "likely voters"

I have voted 100% of the time in every single election, no matter how trivial it was.

Also, I do occasionally make contributions.


I think polls, especially a compilation of several, is a good indication of public opinion.

Some polls are thinly disguised 'push polls' to try an influence one to vote for or against someone. In CA we have several contested primaries. I have been getting calls claiming to be polls that begin with a question on immigration or taxes and based on an answer, they next ask you if you would likely vote for candidate X if he supported immigration reform, etc.
 
“If you voted for Obama, seek urologic care elsewhere.
Changes to your healthcare begin right now.
Not in four years.”



http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes....or-obama-seek-urologic-care-elsewhere/?src=mv

Fla. doctor's sign warns away Obama supporters

(AP) – 38 minutes ago

MOUNT DORA, Fla. — A Florida urologist is so upset with the new health care bill that he's posted a sign at his practice warning President Barack Obama's supporters to find another doctor.

The notice on Dr. Jack Cassell's Mount Dora office says: "If you voted for Obama, seek urologic care elsewhere."

Cassell tells the Orlando Sentinel he's not turning away patients, because that would be unethical. But the 56-year-old says it's OK with him if any Obama supporters chose not to see him after reading the sign.

The urologist also keeps Republican materials in the waiting room.

Experts say Cassell is toeing a thin line between right and wrong.

Doctors can't legally discriminate based on a patient's race, gender or religion, but civil rights laws don't explicitly protect political opinions.

Is this guy fit to be a doctor?

I guess he has his 'rights' to express his opinion.

But I wonder why he got into 'medicine' in the first place.
 
Obama_Doctors.jpg


Yeah, nothing worse than agenda promoting doctors.
 
Hmm, let's see. One agenda involves giving more people access to affordable medical care. The other agenda involves denying people care because you don't like their politics.

I wonder which one's worse. :hmm:
 
I hope I'm not being repetitive here.. but I thought this was interesting:


Side-by-Side Comparison of Major Health Care Reform Proposals - Kaiser Family Foundation

A side by side comparison of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (P.L. 111-148) with amendments included in the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (H.R. 4872) and Former Majority Leaders: Senators Howard Baker, Tom Daschle, & Bob Dole Crossing Our Lines: Working Together to Reform the U.S. Health System

Current Plan:
Require most U.S. citizens and legal residents to have health insurance.

Bipartisan plan:
Require all Americans and legal residents to have health insurance.

Current Plan:
Create state-based American Health Benefit Exchanges through which individuals can purchase coverage, with premium and cost-sharing credits available to individuals/families with income between 133-400% of the federal poverty level (the poverty level is $18,310 for a family of three in 2009) and create separate Exchanges through which small businesses can purchase coverage.

Bipartisan plan:
Create state-based health insurance exchanges through which individuals and employers can purchase health coverage, with premium credits available to individuals/families with incomes up to 400% of the federal poverty level.

Current Plan:
Require employers to pay penalties for employees who receive tax credits for health insurance through an Exchange, with exceptions for small employers.

Bipartisan plan:
Require employers to provide coverage to employees or pay a fee based on annual payroll, with exceptions for certain small employers, and provide certain small employers a credit to offset the costs of providing coverage.

Current Plan:
Impose new regulations on health plans in the Exchanges and in the individual and small group markets.

Bipartisan plan:
Impose new regulations on plans participating in the exchanges and in the individual and small group insurance markets.

Current Plan:
Expand Medicaid to 133% of the federal poverty level.

Bipartisan plan:
Expand Medicaid to 100% of the poverty level.
 
I hope I'm not being repetitive here.. but I thought this was interesting:


Side-by-Side Comparison of Major Health Care Reform Proposals - Kaiser Family Foundation

A side by side comparison of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (P.L. 111-148) with amendments included in the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (H.R. 4872) and Former Majority Leaders: Senators Howard Baker, Tom Daschle, & Bob Dole Crossing Our Lines: Working Together to Reform the U.S. Health System

Very good. Thank you for this!!

You could go on and on about the provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care act that, before 2009 were bipartisan and non controversial.

This is just more evidence of the Republican Party's agenda of obstruction at all costs. Not that you should need evidence, it was their STATED agenda and strategy right from the beginning of the Obama presidency to distort everything he is doing into something socialistic or un American and then oppose it lock step.

So I guess big thank yous are in order for Eric Cantor, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Jim Demint and the rest of the Republican team that has decided not to discuss issues in good faith in a time when perhaps doing just that is more important than ever.

All I know is the rhetoric coming out of the Republicans and their friends on talk radio, the vitriol, the lockstep obstruction at all costs is the Republican party overplaying their hand. They will not have anywhere near as much success as they think they will in November if they keep going like this and the economy keeps improving.
 
Very good. Thank you for this!!

You could go on and on about the provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care act that, before 2009 were bipartisan and non controversial.

What I would like to see happen is that people are educated about this without making it seem like they are being educated by "liberals" or that the "conservatives" are playing games. While I cannot understand why the Republican party would distance themselves from policy that they helped create, pointing that out just isn't going to make a difference. People will feel attacked by "the other side" and shut down. I understand that there are some that do know what the reform means and just don't want it, but I know there are a lot of other people that don't understand it and think they don't want it. Those people need to be educated.
 
I saw a bit of Michael Moore on Larry King last night. He had a contest on his web site to find out the penalty for insurance companies for denying coverage to someone with a preexisting condition. He says that it's hidden in the bill, that it's only $100.00 a day. So they could essentially just pay that and it would cost them less than just stringing someone along who has any life threatening illness or disease. Um, that doesn't sound good enough at all to me.
 
I saw a bit of Michael Moore on Larry King last night. He had a contest on his web site to find out the penalty for insurance companies for denying coverage to someone with a preexisting condition. He says that it's hidden in the bill, that it's only $100.00 a day. So they could essentially just pay that and it would cost them less than just stringing someone along who has any life threatening illness or disease. Um, that doesn't sound good enough at all to me.

But someone with a preexisting condition can live for years.

A family member of mine was denied depression meds because it was a preexisting condition, so it can definately add up.

It's not only the life threatening conditions that insurance companies deny. So if you average it across the board I'm sure it's a pretty stiff penalty.
 
I understand all that, but in order to account for life threatening conditions they should have made the penalty higher. Athletes get fined much higher than that for meaningless issues compared to anyone's life or health. I'd like to know what the rationale was for that. I just can't see insurance companies worrying about that kind of money.
 
Support for repeal of the new national health care plan has jumped to its highest level ever. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 63% of U.S. voters now favor repeal of the plan foisted on the country by deceit and bribery passed by congressional Democrats and signed into law by President Obama in March.

Prior to today, weekly polling had shown support for repeal ranging from 54% to 58%.

Currently, just 32% oppose repeal.

The new findings include 46% who Strongly Favor repeal of the health care bill and 25% who Strongly Oppose it.

Always like to start the week with good news.
 
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 63% of old people bored enough to take a stupid telephone survey now favor repeal of the plan passed by congressional Democrats and signed into law by President Obama in March.
fixed.
 
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 8% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Eighty-four percent (84%) Strongly Disapprove.
 
I understand all that, but in order to account for life threatening conditions they should have made the penalty higher. Athletes get fined much higher than that for meaningless issues compared to anyone's life or health. I'd like to know what the rationale was for that. I just can't see insurance companies worrying about that kind of money.



I agree this is troubling. It gives the insurance companies an option to pick and choose based on whom to cover and whom to deny. They'll pick up the pre-existing that will run them less than $36,500 a year and deny the condition that is either a wash or has the potential of costing them considerably more. This puts us in a somewhat better position, but I'm not thinking this was what everyone had in mind and was probably the basis of the strongest support for the bill.
 
Obama and GOP bicker over doctors' Medicare pay - Yahoo! News

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is asking Republican lawmakers to approve billions of dollars in new spending to avert a scheduled 21 percent cut in payments to doctors who treat Medicare patients.

If GOP senators don't allow the stalled proposal to pass, some doctors will stop treating Medicare recipients, Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address Saturday.

Well, the doc fix bill has finally come. Remind me again why these billions were not included in 'comprehensive' health reform?



Keep Your Health Plan Under Overhaul? Probably Not, Gov't Analysis Concludes - IBD - Investors.com

Internal administration documents reveal that up to 51% of employers may have to relinquish their current health care coverage because of ObamaCare.

Small firms will be even likelier to lose existing plans.

The "midrange estimate is that 66% of small employer plans and 45% of large employer plans will relinquish their grandfathered status by the end of 2013," according to the document.

In the worst-case scenario, 69% of employers — 80% of smaller firms — would lose that status, exposing them to far more provisions under the new health law.

We had to pass the bill to see what was in it. :doh:
 
It's encouraging that everyone is out enjoying a June weekend rather than reading internet posts but hopefully one of the vocal supporters of Obamacare will answer BW's question.
Not that he and I don't know the answer but we'd love to hear y'all's explanation anyway.
 
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