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Old 03-16-2010, 04:39 PM   #271
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And now Pelosi is even moving away from the vaunted "up or down" House vote.

Any thoughts on this?
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:53 PM   #272
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Even Sarah Palin recently admitted that she has traveled to Canada from Alaska for health care.
Yeah, she meant Russia though.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:28 PM   #273
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And now Pelosi is even moving away from the vaunted "up or down" House vote.

Any thoughts on this?

what percent of Health Care is paid by the government now?

what percent was paid in 1993?

what do you think will happen if nothing is done now?

has reconciliation been used before?

That is what you are referring to as the not using 'up and down' vote.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:21 PM   #274
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That is what you are referring to as the not using 'up and down' vote.
It's the Administration that's referred to the "up or down" vote ad nauseam. And now even that's in question, so it's on to the next gimmick for this stinker.

So don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining, deep

I don't subscribe to 'something is better than nothing', not on this one.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:23 PM   #275
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This can't be true. We all know you Canadians have to sit on waiting lists for months for any kind of treatment. I bet you came across the border and got your daughter treated in the US. Don't try to fool us, missy!





(I hope your daughter doesn't require surgery and heals quickly.)
Ha, yeah, we're an hour or so from Buffalo, but no, didn't need to go that route.

And thanks! No surgery required, thank goodness. A cast up to her knee for 8 weeks, and no weight on it at all for that time. And we both get to be home tonight to watch Lost. :relief:
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:18 PM   #276
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It's the Administration that's referred to the "up or down" vote ad nauseam. And now even that's in question, so it's on to the next gimmick for this stinker.

So don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining, deep

I don't subscribe to 'something is better than nothing', not on this one.
The party of NO.

NO solutions. NO answers.

And every time someone asks you, INDY or others any questions we get NOthing.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:02 PM   #277
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And every time someone asks you, INDY or others any questions we get NOthing.
How the hell can you say that? Go back through pt 1 and tell me I haven't offered what, imo, are health care delivery solutions. Now maybe you don't agree that reforming malpractice, giving individuals the same tax breaks that corporations get when purchasing HC insurance, removing artificial obstacles to free-market insurance competition, and returning purchasing power to the individual will lower cost allowing more Americans to access to the system. Maybe you don't believe we have enough government programs to get HC to the poor. Maybe you don't believe charity and volunteerism are alive and well in America. Maybe you really do think health care is a right to be paid for by income redistribution and HC decisions are best managed from Washington D.C. rather than the family table.
Fine, we have a fundamental disagreements. But don't say other solutions don't exist and haven't been presented here just because in your mind they won't work.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:19 PM   #278
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Now maybe you don't agree that reforming malpractice, giving individuals the same tax breaks that corporations get when purchasing HC insurance, removing artificial obstacles to free-market insurance competition, and returning purchasing power to the individual will lower cost allowing more Americans to access to the system.
Malpractice does not belong in a healthcare bill, yes I believe something should be done, but I like MOST with any kind of law background realize this really is a seperate issue.

Removing "artificial obstacles", I've shown you and Bluer White specifically several times each that these obstacles are not artificial, and not one counter argument. You ignore and then bring it up a week later hoping maybe no one noticed.

"Returning purchasing power to the individual", quite a broad statement. Sounds good, but no one has shown me how it works, or when was the last time it even really existed except for the rich?

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Maybe you don't believe we have enough government programs to get HC to the poor.
Oh, this is a new one, I'd really like to see you explain this.

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Maybe you don't believe charity and volunteerism are alive and well in America. Maybe you really do think health care is a right to be paid for by income redistribution and HC decisions are best managed from Washington D.C. rather than the family table.
Once again platitudes and solutions that only work for a select few. Charity will not help anything long term. You know that.

Don't kid yourself, family tables are not making the HC decisions now, I've shown you this time and time again as well.

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Fine, we have a fundamental disagreements. But don't say other solutions don't exist and haven't been presented here just because in your mind they won't work.
It's not only that they don't work, they only work for small groups or fix tiny problems, and the rest are just nice slogans; this is not a matter of belief. There have been no real solutions. My point is that they've only been "solutions" of diversion, nothing real. The right wouldn't even be considering healthcare if it wasn't for Obama and the Dems having control, you'd ignore for the rest of your existence if you could because the bottom line is, it doesn't effect you.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:50 PM   #279
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Malpractice does not belong in a healthcare bill, yes I believe something should be done, but I like MOST with any kind of law background realize this really is a seperate issue.
“Here is why tort reform is not in the bill. When you go to pass a really enormous bill like that the more stuff you put in, the more enemies you make, right? And the reason why tort reform is not in the bill is because the people who wrote it did not want to take on the trial lawyers in addition to everybody else they were taking on, and that is the plain and simple truth. Now, that’s the truth.”
-- Howard Dean, Aug 2009

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"Returning purchasing power to the individual", quite a broad statement. Sounds good, but no one has shown me how it works, or when was the last time it even really existed except for the rich?
50 years ago 1/2 of healthcare costs were paid out of pocket by the patient. Today that number is less than 10% with the government being the 3rd party purchaser of half of all healthcare bought in this country. You don't see how government might be the cause of our current problem and not the solution?
Quote:
Once again platitudes and solutions that only work for a select few. Charity will not help anything long term. You know that.
But forced charity through higher taxes on citizens and underpaying HC providers will work long term?
Quote:
Don't kid yourself, family tables are not making the HC decisions now, I've shown you this time and time again as well.
Well maybe if we give them more, not less, choices BVS.

Quote:
The right wouldn't even be considering healthcare if it wasn't for Obama and the Dems having control, you'd ignore for the rest of your existence if you could because the bottom line is, it doesn't effect you.
If you knew where, and what kind of work I do, you wouldn't say that. But it's the same tired, demogogic Democratic equation. Being against more government mandates, more government bureaucracy, more government spending and debt = not caring.

Only it's not working anymore is it BVS?
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:07 PM   #280
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“Here is why tort reform is not in the bill. When you go to pass a really enormous bill like that the more stuff you put in, the more enemies you make, right? And the reason why tort reform is not in the bill is because the people who wrote it did not want to take on the trial lawyers in addition to everybody else they were taking on, and that is the plain and simple truth. Now, that’s the truth.”
-- Howard Dean, Aug 2009
Howard Dean isn't a very informed man about this subject, I'll be the first to admit that I've seen him debate this and he doesn't have the facts.

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50 years ago 1/2 of healthcare costs were paid out of pocket by the patient. Today that number is less than 10% with the government being the 3rd party purchaser of half of all healthcare bought in this country. You don't see how government might be the cause of our current problem and not the solution?
There are about a hundred reasons for this, but why don't you tell me how government has risen obesity, made people excercise less, raised the costs of materials, raised the salaries of doctors, increased carcinogens, and made insurance companies more of a collective unit rather than a competitive one. This should be fun.



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But forced charity through higher taxes on citizens and underpaying HC providers will work long term?
You call it charity, I call it life But then again we found out recently that Jesus is a communist. Thank you Glenn.

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Well maybe if we give them more, not less, choices BVS.
So you're willing to dismantle insurance companies? So your solution is once again screw those that need long term or continuous help, but give the healthy and the wealthy more choice?

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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
If you knew where, and what kind of work I do, you wouldn't say that. But it's the same tired, demogogic Democratic equation. Being against more government mandates, more government bureaucracy, more government spending and debt = not caring.
Then why is it you don't know why insurnace can't be sold over state lines? Why is it you don't know that there isn't enough for the poor to be insured? Why is it you don't understand that saving accounts aren't going to work for someone who needs continuous care? Why is it you don't know that insurance companies are already a collective unit?

Why haven't the Republicans offered anything unless it was counter "solution", never a priority?
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:14 PM   #281
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Heading out of town, see ya in a few days
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:30 PM   #282
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Enjoy your break from this place.

Hope you have a lot of fun.
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:15 PM   #283
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Ha, yeah, we're an hour or so from Buffalo, but no, didn't need to go that route. [/B]
Maybe it's just me, but damn, I hear a song in there. "Sleeping the winter down in Buffalo..." *

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And thanks! No surgery required, thank goodness. A cast up to her knee for 8 weeks, and no weight on it at all for that time. And we both get to be home tonight to watch Lost. :relief:
That's good news. Hope the 8 weeks passes quickly. I bet she'll have plenty of cat company to comfort her.





* it's not supposed to mean anything to anyone else. Just indra being indra.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:28 PM   #284
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right now Health Care has only 160 yes votes to 207 no votes

they need 216 to prevail

can they get 56 more yes votes in 3 days?

or will only 9 more no votes kill it?

The GOP has the advantage, can Obama and Pelosi pull it off????

Who has courage?: House health-care votes
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:39 PM   #285
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Maybe you don't believe charity and volunteerism are alive and well in America.
It's really sad that those in poverty and low income situations are made to rely on "charity" to access even a mediocre standard of health care, when in many other countries (and we manage it just fine, why can't the supposedly greatest nation in the world do it?) it's a right of all citizens, regardless of employment situation or income level.

But it's okay to demean them further. They're only poor people. They're obviously mismanaging their lives, and as such, they're not as deserving. Make them jump through hoops and beg for it!
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