MANDATORY health insurance, part 2

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So wait, government did something right? I thought everything they did went bancrupt or wasn't worth your money? Herein lies one of the big problems: when you weigh how much the U.S. has spent on NASA with what we've really gotten from it, and then weigh it up against the money needed to save human lives people would probably re-think things.


look back...I never said nothing worked, I said two of the biggest social programs are going bankrupt. Health Care is going to be much bigger than both of those. I don't trust the govt with anything that big. but i could be wrong. I wouldn't want the govt taking over the airlines long term. don't you worry about our gov track record making important decisions?

haven't satillites changed the world? :)
 
I honestly do not understand how this bill and this President has stirred up so much hate. It baffles me. I can read and hear all the debates about the negatives surrounding this bill and anger over President Obama and it will never make any sense to me.


Neither can I, Iris. I've tried, but I just can't see the reason for all this outrage and idiocy.
 
it's the completion of the creation of the modern welfare state that began with LBJ, and is the hallmark of any advanced nation. we've lagged behind for too long, at last we are caught up. in many ways, this is the essence of political liberalism -- that the government has an obligation to look out for it's citizens, that this is the essence of civilization. we have medicaid/medicare, social security, some measure of welfare, the civil rights act, and now near-universal health care.

Now that we've joined the other Western welfare states in a death spiral to see who can reach insolvency first - why not just apply to join the European Union and completely put to rest this nagging idea that America was founded to be different. In fact, so different as to be exceptional.
Close the chapter on America being founded on the idea of liberty, not conformity and dependency. On individual rights not collectivism.

Let's just forget all that dusty nonsense, take up soccer, stop taking so many damn baths, cease going to church and rely on the U.N. from now on to keep the crazed dictators, world-dominating Communists and Atomic Ayatollahs at bay.

Pourquoi the hell pas?
 
Now that we've joined the other Western welfare states in a death spiral to see who can reach insolvency first - why not just apply to join the European Union and completely put to rest this nagging idea that America was founded to be different. In fact, so different as to be exceptional.
Close the chapter on America being founded on the idea of liberty, not conformity and dependency. On individual rights not collectivism.

Let's just forget all that dusty nonsense, take up soccer, stop taking so many damn baths, cease going to church and rely on the U.N. from now on to keep the crazed dictators, world-dominating Communists and Atomic Ayatollahs at bay.

Pourquoi the hell pas?
Surely you jest.
 
Now that we've joined the other Western welfare states in a death spiral to see who can reach insolvency first - why not just apply to join the European Union and completely put to rest this nagging idea that America was founded to be different. In fact, so different as to be exceptional.
Close the chapter on America being founded on the idea of liberty, not conformity and dependency. On individual rights not collectivism.

Let's just forget all that dusty nonsense, take up soccer, stop taking so many damn baths, cease going to church and rely on the U.N. from now on to keep the crazed dictators, world-dominating Communists and Atomic Ayatollahs at bay.

Pourquoi the hell pas?


yes, because the Pilgrims wanted to leave The E.U. for religious freedom?

perhaps today they'd go back because they think that people have the individual right to health care regardless of their ability to pay.

fair point on the bathing thing, however.
 
as to be exceptional.

Caring for the least of our brothers is exceptional in my eyes. Let's see, who taught me this? :hmm:

not conformity and dependency.

Coming from the man who used "status quo" as an argument before this made me laugh hysterically.

On individual rights not collectivism.

Yet you love it when it supports your platform. :scratch:

Plus you can't acknowledge that it exists now.
 
Now that we've joined the other Western welfare states in a death spiral to see who can reach insolvency first - why not just apply to join the European Union and completely put to rest this nagging idea that America was founded to be different. In fact, so different as to be exceptional.
Close the chapter on America being founded on the idea of liberty, not conformity and dependency. On individual rights not collectivism.

Let's just forget all that dusty nonsense, take up soccer, stop taking so many damn baths, cease going to church and rely on the U.N. from now on to keep the crazed dictators, world-dominating Communists and Atomic Ayatollahs at bay.

Pourquoi the hell pas?

Since the reasonable side has won out and I am in a good mood, I have a friendly deal to offer you as opposed to a long post :)

In exchange for me leaving you alone forever, could you admit just this one time that the Health care reform bill signed by the President is factually nothing at all like you describe about European welfare systems?

It covers everyone like every other liberal democratic and yes capitalist country, but it goes about it in a different way. Through incentives and expansion of the existing private based system.

If you don't want to admit it in public, admit it just to me so I can verify my assumption that behind both of our usernames exists 2 good, fair minded reasonable people. An assumption that I still make of you, despite past heated discussions!

P.S.- I agree with Irvine on the bathing part!
 
Life and car insurance are luxuries... like I said, no comparison.

Not in Florida. You are required by law to have car insurance. I think some other states have that policy as well.
I wouldn't have it any other way to be honest. Dealing person to person after an accident? No thanks. Just call your guys, I'll call my guys and we'll let the cops decide who is at fault.
 
Not in Florida. You are required by law to have car insurance. I think some other states have that policy as well.
I wouldn't have it any other way to be honest. Dealing person to person after an accident? No thanks. Just call your guys, I'll call my guys and we'll let the cops decide who is at fault.

I think most states have this mandate...

but you don't have to have a car, that was my point.
 
regardless of what anyone says how can we legitimately have faith in a big government program and have it looming towards bankruptcy?
We have two big examples that effect everyone in our country. If the government could manage any big social program I would have much less of a problem with this.
 
LOL!

"Some of my libertarian friends balk at what looks like an individual mandate. But remember, someone has to pay for the health care that must, by law, be provided: Either the individual pays or the taxpayers pay. A free ride on government is not libertarian."
Flashback of the Day -- Political Wire
 
Since the reasonable side has won out and I am in a good mood, I have a friendly deal to offer you as opposed to a long post :)

In exchange for me leaving you alone forever, could you admit just this one time that the Health care reform bill signed by the President is factually nothing at all like you describe about European welfare systems?

It covers everyone like every other liberal democratic and yes capitalist country, but it goes about it in a different way. Through incentives and expansion of the existing private based system.

If you don't want to admit it in public, admit it just to me so I can verify my assumption that behind both of our usernames exists 2 good, fair minded reasonable people. An assumption that I still make of you, despite past heated discussions!

Oh, I'll admit that in public. The bill signed into law by the president does not make government the single payer for all health care. Nor does the bill make all providers government employees as you'd find in England.

Now will you admit that the only reason we have EuropeanCare Lite is that you didn't have enough votes in congress for the real thing. And will you admit that the 60 members of the Progressive Caucus in the House (including Dennis Kucinich) that pledged in a letter that they would not support a bill without a "robust public option," were persuaded to do just that with the understanding this bill is but a "foot in the door." A point repeated by liberals all this week on TV and even here in FYM.
 
Not in Florida. You are required by law to have car insurance. I think some other states have that policy as well.
I wouldn't have it any other way to be honest. Dealing person to person after an accident? No thanks. Just call your guys, I'll call my guys and we'll let the cops decide who is at fault.

Unconstitutional! Why hasn't any body sued over this yet?
 
Oh, I'll admit that in public. The bill signed into law by the president does not make government the single payer for all health care. Nor does the bill make all providers government employees as you'd find in England.

Now will you admit that the only reason we have EuropeanCare Lite is that you didn't have enough votes in congress for the real thing. And will you admit that the 60 members of the Progressive Caucus in the House (including Dennis Kucinich) that pledged in a letter that they would not support a bill without a "robust public option," were persuaded to do just that with the understanding this bill is but a "foot in the door." A point repeated by liberals all this week on TV and even here in FYM.


i, for one, am eager for single-payer health care. and, yes, i hope this is a foot in the door.

but i also think that's wishful thinking on the part of many on the Left, and i think Obama split the difference here -- he gave hope to the liberals while pushing a bill that can be supported by even moderate-to-conservative Dems, and were the GOP leadership different and not held over a barrel by the Teabaggers/Palin-ites, many of them could have voted for it to. it is, above all, quite a moderate bill. sweeping and ambitious, yes, but in no way radical or revolutionary.
 
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