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Old 11-11-2009, 11:26 PM   #181
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Like the Huffington Post !! where mrsspringsteen found her article?
Like the AMA or AARP? Or "mainstream news" sources such as Newsweek, Time, The Washington Post or New York Times?

if you want to believe that "all" news is biased, or that they all contain equal amounts of bias, then you have truly succumbed to the poison of having too many media options. self-selection -- where you only hear what you want to hear, and when what you want to hear gives you reasons to discredit that which seems difficult to reconcile -- is an unfortunate thing, and though we all do it to some extent, i think you're taking it a bit far here, equating such middle-of-the-road publications like Time and Newsweek (or the two best newspapers in the country) to the source you cited.

i'll ask again -- what other sources can you point to that back up your earlier claims?
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:27 PM   #182
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what about killing Iraqis and Afghanis?
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:55 PM   #183
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wrong thread cupcake.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:58 PM   #184
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wrong thread cupcake.


not quite, sweet pea, it's more that i don't want my tax dollars to support unnecessary wars of choice predicated upon faulty intelligence and managed by fools and idiots.

surely that's a stronger, more moral case than enabling a woman to choose when she gets pregnant.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:32 AM   #185
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YouTube - Don't Copy Europe's Mistakes: Less Government Is the Right Way to Fix Healthcare
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:53 AM   #186
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Oh yes, another unbiased "truthful" approach...
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:57 AM   #187
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You can't take *any* different perspective that doesn't completely align with yours, huh?

You either do this: or that: .

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Old 11-12-2009, 10:22 AM   #188
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You can't take *any* different perspective that doesn't completely align with yours, huh?
I take in all perspectives. It's just that this one isn't saying anything new, the only difference in this vs many of the Tea Party crowd is that she admits real reform needs to be done, but then that's when she starts lying.

When it comes to this issue, I haven't heard many people who really know what they are talking about. Politicians on both sides don't know what they are talking about, I saw a debate between Howard Dean and somebody the other day and the Republican brought up the state border issue and Dean's response was weak, all he had to say are that mandates are different from state to state so insurance packages wouldn't work unless there are national changes in mandates. The only difference is that the Dems are on the right side of this issue, I just wish they could get someone who really knew what they were talking about. The Republican side is clueless, they have no insight whatsoever as to the current situation so any attempt they make to "reform" is laughable. The Dem side is slightly less clueless but they are doing what's right.

I have not seen ONE conservative approach that makes sense, they all leave out huge portions of the population and really only work for those that are relatively healthy. And God bless him INDY is the only one who has even tried laying out his answer, I don't think it works for anyone except those that are in his position, but at least he tried. No other conservative has even tried.
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:00 AM   #189
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I take in all perspectives. It's just that this one isn't saying anything new, the only difference in this vs many of the Tea Party crowd is that she admits real reform needs to be done, but then that's when she starts lying.

When it comes to this issue, I haven't heard many people who really know what they are talking about. Politicians on both sides don't know what they are talking about, I saw a debate between Howard Dean and somebody the other day and the Republican brought up the state border issue and Dean's response was weak, all he had to say are that mandates are different from state to state so insurance packages wouldn't work unless there are national changes in mandates. The only difference is that the Dems are on the right side of this issue, I just wish they could get someone who really knew what they were talking about. The Republican side is clueless, they have no insight whatsoever as to the current situation so any attempt they make to "reform" is laughable. The Dem side is slightly less clueless but they are doing what's right.

I have not seen ONE conservative approach that makes sense, they all leave out huge portions of the population and really only work for those that are relatively healthy. And God bless him INDY is the only one who has even tried laying out his answer, I don't think it works for anyone except those that are in his position, but at least he tried. No other conservative has even tried.
You forgot to mention in your rant that she is European and that the proposed plan mirrors Europe's where she lives, and it sucks compared to what the USA currently has.

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Old 11-12-2009, 11:42 AM   #190
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You forgot to mention in your rant that she is European and that the proposed plan mirrors Europe's where she lives, and it sucks compared to what the USA currently has.

<>


there's one European who agrees with you. what about the other 350m of them? do you think most French people or most Germans or most Belgians would give up their health care for the American system?
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:08 PM   #191
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there's one European who agrees with you. what about the other 350m of them? do you think most French people or most Germans or most Belgians would give up their health care for the American system?
Not after generations of brain washed complicity and not having had the experience of the US' health care first hand-no.

I think the girl in the video gave a fresh perspective.

So there.

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Old 11-12-2009, 12:11 PM   #192
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Not after generations of brain washed complicity and not having had the experience of socialized health care first hand-no.
Might be an interesting statement for you to ponder.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:03 PM   #193
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You forgot to mention in your rant that she is European and that the proposed plan mirrors Europe's where she lives, and it sucks compared to what the USA currently has.

<>
Oh, she's European, that completely escaped me, thanks for clearing that up...

There are still ignorant Europeans, take a look at their website, for being European the majority of their uninformed rants are about US Democrats.

And if you knew anything about the plan you would know it doesn't "mirror" Europe's. But like I said none of you guys know anything about it... you're just towing party lines.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:19 PM   #194
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i'll ask again -- what other sources can you point to that back up your earlier claims?
FactCheck.org: What is the percentage of total personal bankruptcies caused by health care bills?

A few pull quotes I found:
Quote:
It's worth noting, though, that the figure from the Harvard study includes those who lost their jobs or significant income due to illness – even if they didn't cite mounting health care bills as a direct cause of their bankruptcy.
Quote:
It's possible that at least some of those who cited medical reasons had debt from other causes, a history of not paying their bills or other complicating issues that led to bankruptcy filing – not just health care. Health costs also could have been the final straw after a long, bruising battle with finances.
Quote:
Buried in the study is the fact that only 27 percent of the surveyed debtors had unreimbursed medical expenses exceeding $1,000 over the course of the two years prior to their bankruptcy. ... Nobody likes to pay $1,000 in medical expenses even when they get two years to do it in, but for most Americans (particularly those with enough at stake to seek the protection of bankruptcy) it is not catastrophic.
Quote:
But a 2008 study by a business professor at the University of California, Davis, said that while medical issues certainly caused bankruptcy, the bigger problem was that families spent beyond their means, leaving them vulnerable to even minor disruptions. "Although our study supports the notion that adverse events contribute to personal bankruptcy filings, the findings emphasize that excessive consumption probably contributes more to the recent increase in personal bankruptcy filing." That study looked at filings in Delaware in 2003.
Now, I can't help it if you want your talking point more than the truth.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:42 PM   #195
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That is the worse "fact check" report I've ever read...

Look at the language:

Quote:
It's possible that at least some of those who cited medical reasons had debt from other causes
That's like saying, "it's possible that at least some of the conservatives polled that day were drunk and that's why they voted the way they did". Speculation does not play a role in a "fact check".

Quote:
Nobody likes to pay $1,000 in medical expenses
Neither does injected opinion.


Quote:
But a 2008 study by a business professor at the University of California, Davis, said that while medical issues certainly caused bankruptcy, the bigger problem was that families spent beyond their means, leaving them vulnerable to even minor disruptions. "Although our study supports the notion that adverse events contribute to personal bankruptcy filings, the findings emphasize that excessive consumption probably contributes more to the recent increase in personal bankruptcy filing." That study looked at filings in Delaware in 2003.
And whereas this is probably true to a point, how did they measure it? What is considered "beyond their means"? I would say the majority of Americans, even those that save are vulnerable to disruptions, it doesn't mean they are living beyond their means. But I just can't take a "fact check" seriously when they say "excessive consumption PROBABLY contributes to the recent...".

What a joke.
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