MANDATORY health insurance, part 2 - Page 11 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-05-2009, 02:15 PM   #151
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ALL words are empty if they don't have action backing them up... Have you read the Republican's version of the healthcare bill? It's the opposite of freedom.
Really? The opposite of freedom is tyranny, limitation and servitude. Contrast the Republican Bill:
Quote:
Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
With the 2000 page Democratic Bill which increases the size, power and scope of government in our lives (tyranny) -- has price controls, centralized planning, less choices and more mandates (limitation) -- and will burden us with higher taxes (servitude).

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Yesterday you celebrated the fact that you denied gay people the freedom to marry, you are one of thse empty worded Republicans as well.
Not that I checked into it but I'm guessing Indiana residents aren't allowed to vote in Maine.
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Old 11-05-2009, 03:16 PM   #152
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With the 2000 page Democratic Bill which increases the size, power and scope of government in our lives (tyranny) -- has price controls, centralized planning, less choices and more mandates (limitation) -- and will burden us with higher taxes (servitude).


this is a good summation of being a modern conservative.
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Old 11-05-2009, 03:53 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
The opposite of freedom is tyranny, limitation and servitude. Contrast the Republican Bill:
Quote:
Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
This is such a non-issue. I live in TX my insurance is from Illinois. Yes there are limitations, because the definition of what podiatry is or what emergency is differ from state lines. It's a non-issue that you have been sold. It's bascially a lie.

Quote:
Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
Doesn't sound like freedom for people who are already sick. This won't work with individuals, small businesses and trades are already doing this in some states.

Quote:
Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
So states can now deny gay people or black people in order to lower costs? This is the most open ended bullshit answer I've ever seen.

Quote:
Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
This doesn't belong in healthcare reform, this belongs in a seperate tort reform. And for the most part it's made up by the Republicans that love insurance companies but hate lawyers.

I can't believe there are educated people falling for this crap!!! This is freedom for insurance companies, the ones that screwed the health care system to where it is...

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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
With the 2000 page Democratic Bill which increases the size, power and scope of government in our lives (tyranny) -- has price controls, centralized planning, less choices and more mandates (limitation) -- and will burden us with higher taxes (servitude).
You really have no understanding of the healthcare system now, I've tried to show you over and over but it's useless. Price controls, central planning, less choices, and more mandates is what we have now but with profit driven suits in control rather than the government. At least with the government you will have less denying of coverage and the Pharma companies won't be pulling the strings, so maybe now all those drugs that can solve your problem in one pill may actually become legal soon rather than illegal becuase you can't profit off of one life saving pill like you can a lifetime of pills. So spare me your "freedom" speech you do not know how this works. I'm tired of empty words.
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Old 11-05-2009, 04:25 PM   #154
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"This bill is the greatest threat to freedom that I have seen," House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio told the crowd gathered on the lawn near the West Front of the Capitol.
Really?

The greatest threat you've ever seen? Really? So terrorism, less of a threat than this bill? Chinese repression of dissidents, a cake walk compared to this bill? Really?


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Among the signs in the crowd was one reading, . . . "Vote no to government-run health care." The crowd included a significant number of older Americans.
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:54 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
This is such a non-issue. I live in TX my insurance is from Illinois. Yes there are limitations, because the definition of what podiatry is or what emergency is differ from state lines. It's a non-issue that you have been sold. It's bascially a lie.
Doesn't seem to be a problem with car, home or life insurance. Only an issue because current law prohibits it. So we change the law.

Quote:
Doesn't sound like freedom for people who are already sick. This won't work with individuals, small businesses and trades are already doing this in some states.
Would work for individuals if given the same tax-breaks as companies. But that would mean allowing people to keep more of their money and allowing them to decide how best to spend it to meet their needs. Can't have that can we?
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So states can now deny gay people or black people in order to lower costs? This is the most open ended bullshit answer I've ever seen.
Aren't you the little champion of federalism.
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This doesn't belong in healthcare reform, this belongs in a seperate tort reform. And for the most part it's made up by the Republicans that love insurance companies but hate lawyers.
Why not do this first since Republicans would eagerly support it? I think we know the answer to that.
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I can't believe there are educated people falling for this crap!!! This is freedom for insurance companies, the ones that screwed the health care system to where it is...
That's one theory I guess.
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You really have no understanding of the healthcare system now, I've tried to show you over and over but it's useless.
Yup, I'm clueless.
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Price controls, central planning, less choices, and more mandates is what we have now but with profit driven suits in control rather than the government. At least with the government you will have less denying of coverage...
Guess you haven't seen all those commercials for Medigap or Medicare supplemental insurance. One wouldn't need those if Medicare covered everything would you? Even so, Medicare still faces an unfunded liability of 60 Trillion dollars -- private insurance companies can't function like that.
Quote:
and the Pharma companies won't be pulling the strings, so maybe now all those drugs that can solve your problem in one pill may actually become legal soon rather than illegal because you can't profit off of one life saving pill like you can a lifetime of pills.
Is the formula for this miracle drug locked up with the carburetor that Big Oil stole that gets 100 miles per gallon?
Quote:
So spare me your "freedom" speech you do not know how this works. I'm tired of empty words.
Hey, if you want "freedom" from the responsibility of making your own decisions about your families healthcare then by all means, I urge you to support the Democratic Health Care Reform Bill.
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:02 PM   #156
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wow what a great but sad sad story
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:05 PM   #157
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The 12 Most Offensive Signs From Bachmann's Tea Party

This has to be the most offensive one yet-how dare they? That makes me sick

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gad...9703_large.jpg
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:13 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Doesn't seem to be a problem with car, home or life insurance. Only an issue because current law prohibits it. So we change the law.
I've explained this one to you so many times... First of all, read my last post: I LIVE IN TX AND HAVE INSURANCE FROM THE STATE OF IL. So this blanket line about it's illegal is bullshit. BUT if you buy medical insurance in Ohio it WILL NOT cover certain procedures. In Ohio podiatry procedures are defined to the midfoot, TX to the ankle, so if you need an ankle surgery you are screwed. And the other way around the insurance company is screwed. So that's why there are limitations. Republicans are morons if they think this helps anyone. The medical industry laughs at this idea of being any kind of solution.

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Would work for individuals if given the same tax-breaks as companies. But that would mean allowing people to keep more of their money and allowing them to decide how best to spend it to meet their needs. Can't have that can we?
Yes it works great for those that are fairly healthy, but if one person has a severe lifelong disease you're screwed. And what are you going to do if you pooled in with the Johnson's next store and it's she who's driving up and draining your money? You're not thinking this through.

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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Aren't you the little champion of federalism.
WHAT? Read that line I commented on and show me how I'm wrong.

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Why not do this first since Republicans would eagerly support it? I think we know the answer to that.
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T BELONG IN HEALTHCARE!!! And who is going to define the paremeters? You?


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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Guess you haven't seen all those commercials for Medigap or Medicare supplemental insurance. One wouldn't need those if Medicare covered everything would you? Even so, Medicare still faces an unfunded liability of 60 Trillion dollars -- private insurance companies can't function like that.
This really has nothing to with what I said, but nice deflection...


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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Is the formula for this miracle drug locked up with the carburetor that Big Oil stole that gets 100 miles per gallon?
I've worked for these companies, I know first hand that certain drugs have not been introduced to the US because they worked "too well". Coincidentally there was an episode of Law & Order on last night about a drug that is 80%(the show claimed it was 91 and they changed the name) effective in ending opiate addicition within 48 hours, but drug companies have blocked the testing so it's illegal in the U.S.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:32 PM   #159
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Ibogaine?
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:08 PM   #160
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I've explained this one to you so many times... First of all, read my last post: I LIVE IN TX AND HAVE INSURANCE FROM THE STATE OF IL. So this blanket line about it's illegal is bullshit.
Only because the company you work for is based out of state I'm assuming. Don't you realize it's the health insurance companies that are against opening up competion across state lines?

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BECAUSE IT DOESN'T BELONG IN HEALTHCARE!!! And who is going to define the paremeters? You?
As a primary factor in driving healthcare costs upward it must be part of reform. But who's going to initiate such reform, the party that is in the silk-lined pocket of the trial lawyer lobby?

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This really has nothing to with what I said, but nice deflection...
It's not a deflection. Private companies can't balance their books like our spending-like-there's-no-tomorrow government does.

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I've worked for these companies, I know first hand that certain drugs have not been introduced to the US because they worked "too well". Coincidentally there was an episode of Law & Order on last night about a drug that is 80%(the show claimed it was 91 and they changed the name) effective in ending opiate addicition within 48 hours, but drug companies have blocked the testing so it's illegal in the U.S.
What names do these miracle drugs go under in other countries? Or is this a [cue spooky music] world-wide-con-spir-a-cy?
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:58 PM   #161
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Only because the company you work for is based out of state I'm assuming. Don't you realize it's the health insurance companies that are against opening up competion across state lines?
Not exactly... The company I work for is based here, but it's complicated.

And yes, I've spoke to you about this, the insurance companies were the ones lobbying for the ban on across the state sales. That's why I laugh when Republicans are defending them yet acting like they can pull off something like this, it won't work unless there are federal mandates in medical licensing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
As a primary factor in driving healthcare costs upward it must be part of reform. But who's going to initiate such reform, the party that is in the silk-lined pocket of the trial lawyer lobby?
But those in pocket with the insurance companies will be able to pull off the things you speak of? Nice try. Tort reform has to be seperate, plain and simple, and yes I agree it needs to be done. But the lines are going to be next to impossible to define. This really is a completely different topic.

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It's not a deflection. Private companies can't balance their books like our spending-like-there's-no-tomorrow government does.
It's a deflection because you ignore the collectivism of insurance companies, you have since day one of this debate.

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What names do these miracle drugs go under in other countries? Or is this a [cue spooky music] world-wide-con-spir-a-cy?
Well the ones that I worked for, never got distributed overseas. But the addiction drug that I was talking about was not developed by one of the companies I worked for, just something I did a lot of research about when I did short stint in dependency programs. A_Wanderer you mentioned Ibogaine, which I think is a naturally occurring drug, this was a synthetic, but from what I remember may be derived from...
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Old 11-07-2009, 11:52 PM   #162
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After going to the Indiana vs Wisconsin football game and winterizing our lawn, it was Buffalo Wings & Cspan time.

My favorite part of the debate was the final reading of the bill by the clerk.

"The bill is to provide affordable and quality healthcare for all Americans and reduce the growth in healthcare spending and for other purposes."

Only in Washington D.C. does it make sense to SPEND 1.2 Trillion dollars to "reduce" the growth in spending.

No surprise that it squeaked by in the House.

And IT IS MANDATORY !!, whether or not you want or need it, under penalty of fine or imprisonment. Ummmm, that's change for sure.
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:10 AM   #163
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Yay, we don't suck anymore.
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Old 11-08-2009, 01:21 AM   #164
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Only in Washington D.C. does it make sense to SPEND 1.2 Trillion dollars to "reduce" the growth in spending.

.
it passed on a bi-partisan vote, too



you do realize that is a ten year projection.

I guess when the 'mark up' a bill they are required to do this.

why not say it cost 120 billion a year?


did you complain about the cost of Bush's Irag mis-adventure?

COSTOFWAR.COM - The Cost of War
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Old 11-08-2009, 01:22 AM   #165
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Only in Washington D.C. does it make sense to SPEND 1.2 Trillion dollars to "reduce" the growth in spending.
The whole concept of insurance as that you spend so that it doesn't cost big when you need it.
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