BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I'm sure this is how he saw it, but it really doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at hand.
MANDATORY health insurance
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I'm sure this is how he saw it, but it really doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at hand.
You do realize that the "death panels" provision in the bill, the one about end of life discussions, was actually originally drafted by a Republican, right Diamond?
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
well smack him.
Of course the natural follow up to my first statement is that if you were to actually read that provision in detail, you cannot in any legitimate, rational way come to the conclusion that the government is going to form "death panels" that decide which members of society are productive enough to keep alive.
But details are pesky, I know.
But details are pesky, I know.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
But but but, reading and details are like really hard.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
I've listened to medical doctors who have-and they have clarified many details, and I, like the majority of Americans are not happy with the Dr.'s understanding of this bill.
Truth be told, you like many here were all for passing the without even reading it, like 99% of our elected officials-who got rejected by the public, who in turned have been labeled different names by those on your side.
The major point is 80% of Americans are happy with their current medical insurance coverage, and Obama wants to reinvent the wheel when it's not broken. If anything most want to balance and realign the wheel -as needed.
Also the public will not be scared into passing bills now. After the strong armed passing of The Patriot Act, FISA, Mortgage, Auto, and Wall Street Bail Outs-we've had enough.
Has it ever occured to you that VA Hospitals are ran by our government and they absolutely suck? You want our government turning private hospitals into VA type hospitals? That's where we're headed if this passes. Also, even Obama admitted recently that FED EX and UPS are better mail carrier systems than the US Post Office, in which we're having a hard time keeping open in some places, anyone that wants to connect the dots can.
Go ahead, let the condscending remarks and name calling begin now.
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BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
If you don't think healthcare is broken then you haven't stepped outside your bubble.
You really think the post office and UPS are comparable? When was the last time you got a letter via Fed Ex?
Where are these doctors you've listened to that have "clarified" the many details?
Now go ahead and let the ignoring of the real questions commense.
You really think the post office and UPS are comparable? When was the last time you got a letter via Fed Ex?
Where are these doctors you've listened to that have "clarified" the many details?
Now go ahead and let the ignoring of the real questions commense.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
The Drs have been on select cable TV programs, medical blogs and journals, WSJ-not places you frequent I gather.
The US Post Office is used for junk mail, and bills, everyone emails nowadays-nobody hardly uses the US mail for writing letters.
Holidays- many use UPS.
And the word is commence.
Thank you.
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
You have no clue what I watch, don't pretend otherwise. But way to site a source, keep dodging that bullet, I'm sure someday we'll all forget that no one ever had a real opposition.
Exactly. So the comparison is moot. US mail is a victim of technology and times, nothing else.
Like I've said before, you know the argument is weak, when you of all people start correcting spelling.
BoMac
Self-righteous bullshitter
Does this statistic include the 50 million Americans who are NOT insured?
Does this statistic include the Americans that are insured but an unforeseen medical emergency forced them to go bankrupt?
Did Bill Kristol not admit that the government is doing a good job running health care for the armed forces and members of Congress?
And it's occurred and condescending.
Thank you.
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
You mean, the Republican bills that were "strong-armed" through?
And its are run.
Thank you.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
oh she got me..on sentence structure..
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
And very, very expensive.
The Blue Dog Democrats and Independent voters around the country seem to differ on your assessment of the president's plan.
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Roughly 1/3 are in fact NOT Americans.
Another 1/3 live in households above the U.S. median income.
And about 1/2 of the remaining 15-20 million are eligible for Medicaid or S-Chip but fail to enroll.
So do we really need 1200 pages to cover 10 or at the most 15 million uninsurable Americans?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
except that it isn't. one trillion over 10 years really isn't that expensive when you're talking about health care, and it's cheaper than Iraq.
i certainly do disagree with the "Blue Dogs" and i think we're all going to watch as the polls of independents start to shift back because, 1) the GOP has acted like a bunch of raving lunatics, again, and 2) 28% of independents don't have an opinion on the plan, and 25% of Americans are undecided.
Americans Still Sharply Divided on Healthcare Reform
the President has been too vague. once he gets it together, and now that he has let the GOP, again, look like idiots, support will start to swing his way. likely, we'll get a trigger option, which will upset progressives like me, but will ultimately be an achievement he can tout going in to 2010.
if you look back at some of the threads from early 2008, i noted that Obama believed in "incremental liberalism" just like HRC and most other mainstream Democrats. it seems as if that's the case again in this situation.
has an opportunity for sweeping change been lost? yes. and that's too bad, imho. but will health care be incrementally improved? yes, as well.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Both of these are pretty hard to prove don't you think?
I'm sure the undocumented fill out a lot of surveys.
Above median income? Median income for what, a household of 3? Does that include households with members with pre-existing conditions that would require a whole other salary just to pay for medical expenses?
The right's use of numbers is abysmal.
Se7en
Rock n' Roll Doggie
median household income, 2007 (national): $50,740
USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
by state and family size: Income - Median Family Income in the Past 12 Months by Family Size
some of these numbers are beyond modest...
alabama: 4-person families 60,298
illinois: 4-person families 75,484
massachusetts: 4-person families 89,347
oregon: 4-person families 64,832
(random sampling)
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I might also mention that this year's 50 million are not last years 50 million. Uninsurance, like unemployment, being transitory. 75% of the 50 million being uninsured for 1 year or less, usually just a matter of months.
We need sensible reforms, not a major overhaul or "sweeping changes" as Irvine calls it.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This doesn't really matter at all does it?
We need sensible major overhaul. You might be fine with big pharma setting your prices, and business men decided if you live or die, but I'm not.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
so you should be very happy because that's what it seems that Obama is going to give us.
also, as we move towards a more freelance economy, and people who will switch jobs several times in their lifetimes, and no retirement watch, doesn't it make sense to address the occasional uninsured? you may be out of your job for 3-6 months, but 3-6 months without insurance is kind of a killer if your kid has cancer, your spouse is in a car accident, etc.
as i've said, i now have a pre-existing condition and i pay close to $200 a month for BCBS. it's not going to be getting any cheaper, especially if i were to have children. it's not yet a budget buster, but it very well could be for me without reform.
and, finally, is it not true that, while $10T sounds like a whole lot, it's going to be dwarfed by what health care is going to cost employers, particularly small business owners, in the not-so-distant future? isn't that what Obama is really addressing? and isn't that actually the height of responsibility -- short term pain to stave off a potential long-term crisis?
Tiger Edge
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
it doesn't matter what Obama gives us. he could do everything the right wing wanted, even become full on neo-con and I guarantee you they'd still be shitting on him at FOX. it's a moot point by now. there's no reason to give in to republican demands. they're not going to ever like him, even if he captures osama bin laden with bear trap and kills him on dancing with the stars, LIVE
although I guess the same could be said about Bush 3 years ago. i hate the people in this country sometimes.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
but that would be awesome.
then again, this is the party that has single handedly exploded the nation's debt since 1980 -- with George HW Bush being the sole exception -- and they're now blaming it on a fascist Muslim foreigner elitist affirmative action baby.
anyway, Happy Ramandan. make sure you leave out milk and cookies for when Barack Obama slides down your chimney and steals money out of children's piggy banks.
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
Health Care Reform Passage Status:
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Spelling corrections and cute pics...
Well we know Diamond is out for the count.
Well we know Diamond is out for the count.
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
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