MANDATORY health insurance

[MrsSpringsteen]

I spent some time in an ER last week, at 4:30 in the morning. Even at that time (with one other patient there that I could see) things moved at a snail's pace. I think some of the people working there might be so used to having so much to do that when they don't they go into reverse or something (or maybe some are like that all the time, I don't know). I sat in a waiting area for hours and their phone would ring and ring and no one would answer it (they weren't doing much else other than watching tv and changing the channels). There were other patients coming in later but not that many. Thankfully I haven't been in enough ER's to judge but it made me wonder. I think some health care needs more reform than just insurance and access for all.

 

[HyperU2]

It took me 2 hrs to get through ER processing and I was an employee of the hospital with an on the job "injury". lol Shit happens.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Shit happens doesn't really cut it. I think it's ridiculous.

 

[HyperU2]

If it's free do you think the lines will be longer or shorter?

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

would you rather pay to stand in line or do it for free?

 

[HyperU2]

I'd rather not end up in the ER. Paying for it makes me cautious.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

If it's free do you think the lines will be longer or shorter?

From my limited understanding some ER care is already free-people with no insurance go there for all issues, emergency and non emergency. The question is-what causes the lines other than money and insurance issues? 4:30 in the morning with an empty ER?

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

you didn't answer the question though

 

[Irvine511]

I'd rather not end up in the ER. Paying for it makes me cautious.

good point. maybe people would stop getting leukemia if they had to pay for it.

 

[Tiger Edge]

I'd rather not end up in the ER. Paying for it makes me cautious.

This has to be the strangest statement I've ever read. You're supposed to be cautious for your own benefit, not because of money.
It's these kind of simplistic answers that will never get us anywhere on the debate. As you so aptly put it, shit happens.

 

[HyperU2]

That was a joke but anyway, yeah I don't really mind paying for insurance.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

maybe people would stop getting leukemia if they had to pay for it.

Yes-they should really have better self control

 

[INDY500]

What I'd be interested in is a conseravtive plan that actual gives patients some real power and real choice, rather than giving all the power to the "market" (i.e. the insurance companies).

Can't give you more power or choices than letting you keep more of your money (tax code reform, HSA's), letting you purchase the type of coverage that fits your lifestyle, thus let the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.

Sick In America -- John Stossel
YouTube - John Stossel - Sick in America - Part 5 (of 6)

I'd recommend watching all 6 segments but this one is about insurance.

 

[HyperU2]

From my limited understanding some ER care is already free-people with no insurance go there for all issues, emergency and non emergency. The question is-what causes the lines other than money and insurance issues? 4:30 in the morning with an empty ER?

I don't think it's free, most people just use the ER if they don't have insurance because they can be seen there instead of a private doctor. For anyone that was uninsured we would set them up on a payment plan. Maybe it was a staffing issue in your case. I was working as many hours per week as legally allowed when I worked for the hospital and we still didn't have enough help. Now they aren't even hiring for my position in hospitals any more.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

That was a joke but anyway, yeah I don't really mind paying for insurance.

What about people who want it desperately but can't afford it? It's not a question of if they mind paying for it. You work for a hospital so maybe you get a great deal, I don't know.

 

[INDY500]

John Stossel and Michael Moore on the role of government in healthcare.

YouTube - John Stossel - Sick in America - Part 4 (of 6)

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Maybe it was a staffing issue in your case. I was working as many hours as legally allowed when I worked for the hospital and we still didn't have enough help.

I don't think so-there were several doctors around and two people at the desk who talked and changed the tv channels.

 

[HyperU2]

Could be some apathy there too, but you'll have that no matter what. Claim chest pains, you'll always get seen faster.


I think the UK's service time just came down to four hours. Hopefully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Hour_Emergency_Target

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I had chest pains after I left-from stress and fatigue. They would have had to change the tv channel first. A pregnant lady came in, luckily she went up to labor and delivery (I assume) before she went into labor in the waiting area. A man came in and said he was vomiting and had to ask for a bag, they never offered him one. Luckily I was at the other side of the waiting area. I was worried about swine flu.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I don't think it's free, most people just use the ER if they don't have insurance because they can be seen there instead of a private doctor

I think that would be true in private hospitals-in places like county hospitals that aren't privately owned, I'm not sure about that.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

it just boggles my Canadian mind that you will allow your government to remove your personal freedoms to "protect" you from terrorists, completely leave your economy to spiral into a cluster fuck of unprecedented greed and mismanagement, inoculate you with god knows what to "protect" you from Swine Flu and other coming plagues and pretty much destroy your country’s foreign policy through war and posturing but when it comes to health care - they apparently have gone too far.

 

[martha]

et the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.

And the there's my friend who has a heart condition who couldn't get private insurance because of it.

If she'd only been more careful at her conception and during her fetal development.

 

[HyperU2]

I think that would be true in private hospitals-in places like county hospitals that aren't privately owned, I'm not sure about that.

I've only had experience with privately owned hospitals, the one I worked for was a Catholic hospital.

 

[maycocksean]

Can't give you more power or choices than letting you keep more of your money (tax code reform, HSA's), letting you purchase the type of coverage that fits your lifestyle, thus let the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.

Sick In America -- John Stossel
YouTube - John Stossel - Sick in America - Part 5 (of 6)

I'd recommend watching all 6 segments but this one is about insurance.

But what if the insurance company won't ALLOW you to buy the coverage that fits your lifestyle? What if they won't allow you to buy any sort of coverage at all? That's what I mean by giving the patients real power. It's like going into a store and saying, I'd like to buy that and the store says--"Nope, we won't sell that to you." This is what I'd like to see addressed.

I'll watch the videos on my lunch.

 

[BVS]

If it's free do you think the lines will be longer or shorter?

The only way emergency rooms will change is if more effort is put into preventative care, if you give people access to doctors, they will not have to wait till the problem becomes an emergency, this will be the only way emergency rooms change.

Can't give you more power or choices than letting you keep more of your money (tax code reform, HSA's), letting you purchase the type of coverage that fits your lifestyle, thus let the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.

But this isn't how it works!!! You've been shown this time and time again and you choose to gloss over it because it doesn't fit your agenda. Do you still wonder why the words "misled" or "misinformed" are used so much?

 

[HyperU2]

The only way emergency rooms will change is if more effort is put into preventative care, if you give people access to doctors, they will not have to wait till the problem becomes an emergency, this will be the only way emergency rooms change.

Doesn't really help that 4 hour window that is the goal in the UK though.

 

[BVS]

Doesn't really help that 4 hour window that is the goal in the UK though.

What?

 

[maycocksean]

The videos were interesting. The first one, in particular was compelling. I like the idea of my employer putting funds into an HSA.

What about those who are self-employed? I assume they would just make their own HSA?

The second video really revealed Stoessel as an idealogue though, which makes me skeptical. It might interest you to know that I'm not a fan of Michael Moore for exactly the same reason. I haven't watched any of his recent films because you always get the sense with him that you're not getting the whole story, you're only getting the side he wants you to see. I got that same sense with Stoessel in the second video as well.

The profit motive can easily become greed, and when greed takes over especially in the arena of health care, people can really get hurt. The government does a poor job because of the lack of profit motive, but the private sector does a poor job as well when the profit motive outstripts the a commitment to doing the job it's supposed to do. When making money becomes more important than providing the service, we have a problem.

And the thing is your big corporations (insurance and otherwise) don't actually want competition. . .don't forget that. Competition is great for the customer. Not so much for the company. Businesses engage in competitive pricing and such when they have to, but if they can avoid it they will. It would be interesting to note what the lobbyists for the healthcare industry are advocating in this ongoing debate. Whatever it is, you can be sure it is a position that reduces competition not increases it.

 

[BVS]

HSA's are great for young, healthy people. If you don't fit in that category, they suck.

 

[BoMac]

it just boggles my Canadian mind that you will allow your government to remove your personal freedoms to "protect" you from terrorists, completely leave your economy to spiral into a cluster fuck of unprecedented greed and mismanagement, inoculate you with god knows what to "protect" you from Swine Flu and other coming plagues and pretty much destroy your country’s foreign policy through war and posturing but when it comes to health care - they apparently have gone too far.

You socialist immoral bastard.