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Old 09-09-2009, 10:53 PM   #916
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i liked this part:

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Part of the reason I faced a trillion dollar deficit when I walked in the door of the White House is because too many initiatives over the last decade were not paid for – from the Iraq War to tax breaks for the wealthy. I will not make that same mistake with health care.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:02 PM   #917
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If Democrats are going to continue to use the example of Alabama having 85% of all it's policies with just one insurance company to illustrate the lack of competition (as Obama did in his speech tonight); can one person tell me why the Democrats will not support allowing Alabamians to buy insurance from private insurers in another state (which everyone is now restricted from doing) rather then set up this public option as the only recourse. Miss Alabama can insure her legs with Lloyd's of London but she can't buy more affordable health insurance from Georgia? Why, why is this status quo so sacred?

Anyone?
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:05 PM   #918
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i liked this part:
The partisan digs were the low point if you ask me. I thought we were tying to get beyond such things and "work together for the American people."
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:07 PM   #919
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The partisan digs were the low point if you ask me.
Yeah, way worse than some lunatic screaming during a joint session of Congress.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:15 PM   #920
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This isn't aimed at anyone who's posting in this thread, just a general attitude.

Honestly its only those who gain 'strength' in their life from amassing lots of money that could genuinely oppose extending human rights to all, that includes proper education and healthcare. You're born into a lottery, for the most part those who have a lot have had advantages all their lives, but what % chance makes you different from the kid that didn't get any chances? So why are you so high and mighty to not be willing to take even the slightest hit for the benefit of others? Its not to say we shouldn't live in a capitalistic society, people make progress by working for themselves, but we can't be made better by doing things solely for ourselves. It isn't socialist to try and extend decency of life to people, and it isn't business-crushing to have a non-profit option for the 10's of millions who don't have access to health-care otherwise.

It is one thing to oppose the details of a bill(s), and believe me I'm not foolishly agreeing with all of them, but its another to do so simply because you have an ulterior selfish attitude.

My point is that Obama's motivations are sound, even if they way we're aiming to get there isn't just yet. Is there really anyone out there who believes he wants to create a socialist state with willy-nilly abortions and a touchy-feely love fest haven for terrorists? I hope not, I assume that's the scare-tactic angle of the moment, but it would terrify me if those spouting it actually thought that instead of using it as angle to save their pockets a hit.

That's my attitude, I don't rally behind all of his policies, I won't be sheep-herded into the details of all bills that get to the ideals I agree with, but I'm advocating we all work together honestly and with our motivations out on our sleeves. Its my great disappointment in how strong political in-fighting has become that to reach any position of power, even those who advocate bipartisan efforts (like Obama seemingly was a few years) have to tip completely to one side. But as a moderate independent, politics will be even more bafflingly painful to watch for me, as the same pigheadedness takes different forms over and over again.

/rant over.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:22 PM   #921
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^Excellent post. I feel precisely the same way.

The discussions in the medical office I work at tomorrow will be lengthy.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:23 PM   #922
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Yeah, way worse than some lunatic screaming during a joint session of Congress.

Maybe he should have thrown a shoe as I seem to remember Democrats rather enjoyed seeing a president of the United States dodge leather projectiles thrown by a dissenting member of the audience.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:25 PM   #923
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Maybe he should have thrown a shoe as I seem to remember Democrats rather enjoyed seeing a president of the United States dodge a leather projectile thrown by a dissenting member of the audience.
Did a Democratic member of Congress do that?

Way to falsely equivocate. Really lame, honestly.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:28 PM   #924
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Maybe he should have thrown a shoe as I seem to remember Democrats rather enjoyed seeing a president of the United States dodge leather projectiles thrown by a dissenting member of the audience.
He probably just couldn't get them off quickly enough.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:36 PM   #925
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One last thing on decorum. I watched the Republican response on MSNBC and did anyone else catch the first words out of K Olbermann's mouth when he was done? Mentioned the guy's been sued for malpractice 3 times and called him a birther. Class act Keith. The congressman deserves no less respect than the president.
There really are much more important things to focus on this evening, but since I spent most of the day with my mother, who was receiving top rate and timely health care at one of our best (socialized) health care facilities in the area, I'm sleepy tonight and not really fit for in depth policy discussions. So for now, I'd just like to say that given that Obama has been raked over the coals ad nauseum, and we are all well aware of every detail of his background, why should the background of the Republican speaker be off limits? Knowing the background of the speaker can help one understand how their thoughts and opinions were formed, and these points were particularly illuminating. I say this as someone who can't stomach Olbermann, but I did hear the same things from a different news source.

I think the Republican heckler did display an appalling lack of decorum, but he was in a professional situation. Olbermann and other media members cannot be held to the same standard in this case, their jobs are to report relevant information, and I do believe this information was relevant to understanding possible motivations of the congressman.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:48 PM   #926
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So, if an "illegal" (and really, are people somehow "illegal"?) needs medical care, we let him die on the street? I'd like a real answer from someone, please. Anyone.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:55 PM   #927
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
If Democrats are going to continue to use the example of Alabama having 85% of all it's policies with just one insurance company to illustrate the lack of competition (as Obama did in his speech tonight); can one person tell me why the Democrats will not support allowing Alabamians to buy insurance from private insurers in another state (which everyone is now restricted from doing) rather then set up this public option as the only recourse. Miss Alabama can insure her legs with Lloyd's of London but she can't buy more affordable health insurance from Georgia? Why, why is this status quo so sacred?

Anyone?
This is partly a farse, and partly misunderstood.

I have BCBS Illinois, but live in TX, due to my employer's corporate office in Illinois.

In some aspects my plan is much better than most of those living in TX, but in other ways it's very limited compared to a plan I would purchase in TX.

The not being able to buy from state to state is mainly set up by the insurance companies themselves. Go "free market"!

Why? Take podiatry for example: podiatry in TX is defined by any procedure from the forefoot to an inch above the ankle, Georgia is up to right under the knee, and Ohio is just the forefoot the ankle isn't included. (now these may not be exact by state) But the point being is that regulations differ from state to state so in order for the insurance companies not to be screwed they worked collectively and compromised on regulations not allowing some policies to be sold state to state.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:26 AM   #928
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Maybe he should have thrown a shoe as I seem to remember Democrats rather enjoyed seeing a president of the United States dodge leather projectiles thrown by a dissenting member of the audience.
Really? Wow.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:31 AM   #929
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Really? Wow.
Of course, what Indy didn't mention is that the shoe was thrown by an Iraqi journalist in Iraq, not by a member of the US Congress. I realise that's just a minor detail....

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Old 09-10-2009, 02:34 AM   #930
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Of course, what Indy didn't mention is that the shoe was thrown by an Iraqi journalist in Iraq, not by a member of the US Congress. I realise that's just a minor detail....

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My "Really? Wow." was incredulity that he used this as an example of......well, of anything, really. I know that the right have lost their minds, but come on, a child could do better than this.
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