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Old 09-06-2009, 08:04 PM   #841
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I have a friend that I met 30 yrs ago when we served as missionaries in Michigan.

He's did very well with his life and has adopted many children, some with special needs.

2 of his special needs kids have died recently of Cancer, he's had to deal with "end of life" counseling.

He's against having the govt decide who shall live or die.

Below is a link to his blog about it:

Chromosomes, Cancer & Kids: Death Panels & Toxic Pee
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Old 09-06-2009, 08:33 PM   #842
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he's had to deal with "end of life" counseling.
Is that anything like the counseling pregnant women are forced to endure when they want an abortion?
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Old 09-06-2009, 08:43 PM   #843
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He's against having the govt decide who shall live or die.
So is he for the "free market" deciding who shall live or die? Who does he support making these decisions?
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Old 09-06-2009, 08:48 PM   #844
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He's against having the govt decide who shall live or die.
First, my condolences to your friend and his family.

Does he honestly think that if Obama's plan goes through that those cases would have had a different outcome? Does he think that there would have been some Big Brother-like government official sitting in on the discussions with the physicians, dictating what would or wouldn't happen with treatment?

I'd like to think that cases like this are simply naivety rather than willful partisan stupidity, but I'm not so sure.
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:01 PM   #845
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First, my condolences to your friend and his family.

Does he honestly think that if Obama's plan goes through that those cases would have had a different outcome? Does he think that there would have been some Big Brother-like government official sitting in on the discussions with the physicians, dictating what would or wouldn't happen with treatment?

I'd like to think that cases like this are simply naivety rather than willful partisan stupidity, but I'm not so sure.
Yes, and he's a wealthy, intelligent, successful individual.

I think the way it's headed that the 'end of life panels' would look at his special needs kids as less than productive citizens and deny them treatment to extend their lives.

At least under his current insurance, he had a choice-and made the ultimate decision on what to do.

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Old 09-06-2009, 09:03 PM   #846
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Yes, and he's a wealthy, intelligent, successful individual.

I think the way it's headed that the 'end of life panels' would look at his special needs kids as unproductive citizens and deny them treatment to extend their lives.

At least under his current insurance, he had a choice-and made the ultimate decision on what to do.

<>
My answers to this are 1) if he thinks that, he's not nearly as intelligent as you give him credit for; and 2) you're simply wrong, period.
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:03 PM   #847
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So is he for the "free market" deciding who shall live or die? Who does he support making these decisions?
No, if you read the blog, he was allowed to make the final decision.

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Old 09-06-2009, 09:15 PM   #848
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My answers to this are 1) if he thinks that, he's not nearly as intelligent as you give him credit for; and 2) you're simply wrong, period.

Well, if:
death panels, end of life counselling are not in the bill:

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

then I'm sure that the Administration will *happily* clear that up.

If it is in the bill, that's another reason it will not pass- and have to be changed.

Americans won't idly stand by and have something rammed down their throats.

Each day this bum is in office the less he is trusted.

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Old 09-06-2009, 09:24 PM   #849
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You're usually a little on the gullible side, diamond, so I think you might want to wait this one out, too, to see what's really going on.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:33 PM   #850
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You're usually a little on the gullible side, diamond, .
Yep, and thankfully the majority of Americans are not.

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Old 09-06-2009, 10:35 PM   #851
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Yep, and thankfully the majority of Americans are not.

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Except this past November, obviously.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:23 PM   #852
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Except this past November, obviously.

Given the choices, Senator O was the only choice.

That said he has since squandered what he lucked in to.

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Old 09-06-2009, 11:38 PM   #853
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No, if you read the blog, he was allowed to make the final decision.

<>
Then I have to say you and your "friend" truly do not understand the bill or the current state of insurance.

You've been sold a lie about "death panels" and you bought it.

As a salesman you should feel a little embarassed.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:16 AM   #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Well, if:
death panels, end of life counselling are not in the bill:

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

then I'm sure that the Administration will *happily* clear that up.

If it is in the bill, that's another reason it will not pass- and have to be changed.

Americans won't idly stand by and have something rammed down their throats.

Each day this bum is in office the less he is trusted.

<>

Twenty-six Lies About H.R. 3200 | FactCheck.org

Claim: Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
Claim: Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
Claim: Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death
Claim: Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
Claim: Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
Claim: Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.


All False. These six claims are a twisted interpretation of a provision in the bill that says Medicare will cover voluntary counseling sessions between seniors and their doctors to discuss end-of-life care. Medicare doesn’t pay for such sessions now; it would under the bill. End-of-life care discussions include talking about a living will, hospice care, designating a health care proxy and making decisions on what care you want to receive at the end of your life. Doctors do the consulting, not the "government" or a "bureaucracy." The e-mail author’s assertion that the bill calls for "an ORDER from the GOVERNMENT" for end-of-life plans rests on language about a patient drawing up such an order stipulating their wishes, and having that order signed by a physician. There’s nothing about "an order from the government." The bill defines an order for life-sustaining treatment as a document that "is signed and dated by a physician …[and] effectively communicates the individual’s preferences regarding life sustaining treatment." See our article "False Euthanasia Claims" for more on such assertions.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:30 AM   #855
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No sale.
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