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Old 09-03-2009, 12:12 AM   #796
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Only a strange idea unless you feel individuals have zero responsibly for their own health and every expectation that someone else will financially provide for their health care.

You keep assuming two things:

1. That people will be able to afford this health insurance. Which, if they could, they'd be doing it right now and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

and

2. That the God-like private insurance companies would suddenly wake up and not limit pre-existing conditions and actually allow people to purchase health insurance and then not cancel it when they get sick and really need it.


I don't expect you to address these concerns because they don't play into your free market and "personal responsibility" fantasies, but I thought I'd bring them up.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:23 AM   #797
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Gee I hope not. That might lead to something really crazy like a progressive tax system or something. Naaaaaa, that would never fly.
But what about your common sense rule? Personal responsibilty?

But boob jobs and healthcare are equal in your eyes?

Your priorities all over the place...

Your grasp on healthcare is far reaching.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:58 AM   #798
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you pay for flu shots, you pay for stitches when you slice your thumb and should you suffer a heart attack or some other catastrophic illness you would pay up to your deductible. Like other insurance lower deductible = higher premiums.
But how many people who can't afford comprehensive coverage do you suppose are going to fork over for non-criticals like flu shots in the first place? Routine preventive care is the first casualty of that sort of model. I'm certain I wouldn't have wound up getting diagnosed with the genetic disorder I have as early in the symptomatic stage as I did, had I not been fortunate enough to have excellent comprehensive coverage (perk of working for a large university) by that point in time. Because my symptoms didn't seem particularly serious, they were annoying rather than disabling or painful, and besides, I was still 'young and healthy' (so far as anyone knew at the time), so why spend money we didn't have getting them checked out? Of course, even if I had gone ahead and paid out-of-pocket to have them checked out (which, in fact, by the end of the process would've easily met a high deductible--the MRIs, neurological workups etc.), then I'd still have been screwed once the diagnosis was made, because then I'd have a "pre-existing condition" in the eyes of any future insurer, while meanwhile high-deductible "catastrophic" would no longer be practicable, given the ongoing costs of monitoring and treating the condition.

I chose to buy my house, I chose to buy my car; I didn't get to choose my genes, and I could never afford to pay my own medical bills, let alone my dependents', if I hadn't been able to afford comprehensive coverage by the time fate decided I needed it. I know from corresponding online with other people with my condition--at least, the ones here in the US--that they haven't all been so lucky in their insurance situation: some are facing huge medical debts; some are unable to find an insurer who'll take them, because of how much they're going to cost; some have put off needed neurosurgery because their insurer won't cover their preferred neurosurgeon's costs (insisting on a neurosurgeon with experience in the specific operation you require can be expensive). And as far as I can tell, your response to situations like theirs seems to be, "It's your own damn fault for not having had both the money and the foresight to realize that something like this could happen and make sure you were covered." Unless I'm completely missing some implicit qualifications that were meant to follow from your ideas.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:39 AM   #799
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Rather the point. Once you set up one of these behemoths of a program they can't, no matter how expensive or inefficient they become, be undone can they?
Ah, you don't believe in evolution.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:23 AM   #800
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Isn't it fair and logical that XXXL jeans cost more than small jeans? Doesn't that just make sense? Not "through the roof" different but enough to cover the extra fabric.
I'm not sure what planet you're living on but given that all high end designer jeans don't come in XXXXXXXXL sizes, I can most certainly assure you that skinny people pay more for jeans.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:28 AM   #801
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Holy God, this man is genuinely STUPID.

Everyone who clapped at the end of that story is equally as stupid, and additionally is also too lazy to rub 2 brain cells together in an attempt to do even the most minor amount of critical thinking.

This is not just a sad social statement but an indictment of the American school system that it produces, on a large scale, people of this level of lazy thinking.

Grim.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:35 AM   #802
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yeah, whatever ... DEATH PANELS!!!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:50 AM   #803
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The more and more I see clips like these, see the opposition in forums like this, and see that Glenn Beck had to basically do a how to protest show, the more I'm convinced this is purely mindless robotic partisanshit.

Glenn's TV show last week was basically "say this", "don't put this on your signs", and "don't say this" because he knows the world is laughing at his audience and how uninformed they are proving themselves to be.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:49 AM   #804
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This is not just a sad social statement but an indictment of the American school system that it produces, on a large scale, people of this level of lazy thinking.

Grim.
Maybe they were all home-schooled?
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:21 AM   #805
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yeah, whatever ... DEATH PANELS!!!!!
"DEATH PANELS!!!!!" is the new "NINE ELEVEN!!!!!"
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:50 PM   #806
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This is not just a sad social statement but an indictment of the American school system that it produces, on a large scale, people of this level of lazy thinking.

Grim.
It's astounding to me that common sense can be so easily shouted down by ignorance. How on Earth did these people get swindled into defending insurance companies?

It's also astounding that Obama and the Democrats have basically allowed it to happen for so long without taking this debate by the hands, giving it a good slap across the face and setting things straight.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:58 PM   #807
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It's astounding to me that common sense can be so easily shouted down by ignorance. How on Earth did these people get swindled into defending insurance companies?

It's also astounding that Obama and the Democrats have basically allowed it to happen for so long without taking this debate by the hands, giving it a good slap across the face and setting things straight.
Agree strongly with all of this. It's mind boggling, isn't it?
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:07 PM   #808
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It's astounding to me that common sense can be so easily shouted down by ignorance. How on Earth did these people get swindled into defending insurance companies?

It's also astounding that Obama and the Democrats have basically allowed it to happen for so long without taking this debate by the hands, giving it a good slap across the face and setting things straight.
I think they just would rather still have the private health insurance companies finance their next campaigns than actually reform the health care system. It's sad, it's infuriating, it's disheartening, it's goddamn depressing, but that's what I see. It's been reported that Emmanual Rahm - who, judging from the few times I've seen him on TV, always seems about one second away from losing it, blowing a gasket, etc. - told the more liberal and/or progressive Democrats in congress to essentially shut up in a meeting. He's a blue dog, he probably genuinely doesn't want universal health care. And he's taking his orders from Obama, who probably agrees with the principle of universal healthcare but still wants the private insurance companies' money come 2012. And many of the Democrats in congress fall into one of those two categories as well - 'Blue Dog' or 'Want the money'. Or both. I mean, for all of these reasons, Obama never even tried to cut the private insurance companies out. They've been at the table, getting to ok every word of the bill. What does that tell you? And so Obama settled for the idea of a public option, but he doesn't even seem that confident or determined about that, and he and the administration are not doing a good job of calming the vocal minority down and maybe even winning some of them over. Whenever he talks about healthcare, he always seems like he's walking a tightrope, worrying more about making sure he's not pissing anyone off rather than about actually getting something done.

I'm really disappointed in Obama on this issue.
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:14 PM   #809
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It's astounding to me that common sense can be so easily shouted down by ignorance. How on Earth did these people get swindled into defending insurance companies?
Let me by clear about this. As a health professional I have to deal with the red tape, prior authorizations, drug formularies, diagnosis codes, paper work and way, way too much time spent of hold with insurance companies on a daily basis. It's frustrating for providers as well as patients. It has grown from a minor inconvenience when I graduated in '84 to a full-time part-of-the-job headache. No defender of insurance companies or the status quo I. In fact, I resent that I often become their de facto agent explaining patients policies and restrictions to them and breaking the bad news about uncovered services. Neither do I offer any excuses for insurance companies dropping patients over technicalities or some other nonsensical reason.

Actual consumer protection reform regarding pre-existing conditions, portability and coverage weaseling is badly needed. But so too is reform of the mandates that limit the types of coverage that companies can offer.

Actual tax code reform to begin severing the asinine practice of employer based insurance is needed.

Actual tort reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits, outlandish rewards and defensive medicine is needed.

And pricing reform is needed to put purchasing power and cost awareness back into the hands of individuals so as to make informed choices rather than being insulated by cost-shifting, subsidies and third-party payers.

But excuse me for rejecting the idea that all the system needs is MORE bureaucracy, MORE politicization of the issue (Do we really need yet another "3rd rail" to demagogue?), MORE centralized decision making, MORE coverage mandates and MORE government controlled pricing -- when our current mess arises from the unintended consequences of government incrementally increasing, over the past 45 years, its purchasing of healthcare to the current 40% of all care and medicine in the country.

I too want to cover more people, more affordably. I just don't trust the architects of Amtrak, The Post Office, Ethanol subsidies, Medicare (need I go on?), to do it. My faith lies with the American people.
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:30 PM   #810
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Your grasp on healthcare is far reaching.
As is my knowledge in most things BVS. Thank you.

Now what did you really mean to say?
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