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Old 08-18-2009, 03:29 PM   #436
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maybe i should post this here instead of the fascist socialist thread


In all honesty how can you legalize and control drugs such as meth, heroin, and cocaine?
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:30 PM   #437
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If we could all tone down the rhetoric, that would be awesome.


firstly, invading Iraq and espousing a line of "you're with us or against us" is rather more deserving of a radical response, since many seem to have forgotten just how radical the early Bush years actually were post-9/11 and just how in bed he was with the Religious Right to the point where James Dobson was given veto power over SCOTUS nominees.

it was far, far more incendiary than what Obama is proposing, which is a really, really moderate change to the health care system since he has the shocking goal of wanting to provide health insurance to every american.

i agree that some Bush comments way back then were irresponsible (Bush = Hitler), but let's retain our sense of proportionality and remember our very recent history.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:32 PM   #438
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If we could all tone down the rhetoric, that would be awesome.
Yes, wouldn't that be awesome? Of course it's ironic after you state all this drivel:


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You mean like the Left did so easily and quickly during Bush's term? The reality is that whatever lack of political dialogue we are able to have now is a direct result of studying and employing the Left's playbook for the past eight years -- used frequently and often here on FYM. ("Hail to the Thief," "GW is a racist," "GW is a moron," "GW is a war criminal," "GW is a fascist," "GW is a Christofascist," "Theocracy is on the rise," etc etc. I seem to recall several "Bush is Hitler" comments as well.)
I'm guessing you're too young or didn't pay attention during the Clinton years?
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:37 PM   #439
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In all honesty how can you legalize and control drugs such as meth, heroin, and cocaine?
same as you do tobacco and alcohol. either of which contribute to more deaths than meth, herion, and coke combined i might add.

it's my understanding that meth has become so popular because it has become harder to get the other drugs like coke and heroin. meth is cheap and easy to make, yet probably the most dangerous and harmful drug out there, other than the pharmicuticals.

drug dealers dont check for ID. yet it's pretty hard for someone under 21 do get alcohol.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:47 PM   #440
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what Obama is proposing, which is a really, really moderate change to the health care system
Which is why it's collapsing despite a huge Democratic majority in the House and a 60 vote filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:05 PM   #441
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Which is why it's collapsing despite a huge Democratic majority in the House and a 60 vote filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.


show me where this plan is radical.

i think what we're seeing is the spinelessness of Democrats worried about 2010, and the influence of cable news, as well as the difficulty of saying anything remotely rational about health care in this country because we have people like you comparing something that every last developed nation offers it's citizens to Hitler.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:08 PM   #442
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show me where this plan is radical.

I think what we're seeing is the spinelessness of democrats worried about 2010, and the influence of cable news, as well as the difficulty of saying anything remotely rational about health care in this country because we have people like you comparing something that every last developed nation offers it's citizens to hitler.
+1.

Also, is it possible that insurance companies were, or could be in the future, campaign contributers? Once again, congress putting their bids for re-election over doing what's right for the country. Big surprise.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:20 PM   #443
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i think what we're seeing is the spinelessness of Democrats worried about 2010, and the influence of cable news, as well as the difficulty of saying anything remotely rational about health care in this country because we have people like you comparing something that every last developed nation offers it's citizens to Hitler.
Well it has death panels.

It won't allow profit hungry suits who know nothing about healthcare set and control prices, now the damn people we vote on will get to do this.

And it's socialist, which someone told me was like fascism which = hitler.

How can you not see the writing on the wall?
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:29 PM   #444
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i also think this was a miscalculation on Obama's part, at least politically.

my assumption is that he thinks that getting health care costs under control, in the face of deficits and the knowledge that very shortly health care costs are going to explode, was the motivation. that as well as a sense of crisis that might abate by this time next year as the economy eventually recovers.

it could be that it was all too much too soon, as his presidency has been awfully ambitious from the start. and i think this provided a perfect moment for the GOP Palin-base to freak out and it made for great TV during the slow, slow summer months, so it got disproportionate coverage on cable.

a few facts remain:

1. even El Salvador offers universal health care for it's citizens
2. health care costs will skyrocket
3. it is going to have to be paid for somewhere, somehow
4. the current health care system in this country -- and, also, others -- is unsustainable as the population ages, as people live well into their 90s, and as fewer and fewer businesses are able to cover health care for their employees

so let's actually deal with the fact that, yes, we have a problem, and let's stop the freak out on this issue.

and, yes, i don't see the Left freaking out nearly as much as the Right.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:36 PM   #445
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i also think this was a miscalculation on Obama's part, at least politically.
I was thinking about this this morning actually.

Do you think that Obama perhaps overreached on this one. Was there some hubris, perhaps, to think that he could do what Clinton tried and failed to do?

I agree with your concise summation of the current situation, but at the risk of sounding overly pessimistic, I wonder if this country will ever accept any type of universal healthcare coverage. Maybe it's like the metric system. . .
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:40 PM   #446
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The latest well informed opposition I heard today on the healthplan, from a white man on medicare:

"Obama wants us all to be dependent on the state so we're just like all the other n***ers out there."

It took a lot of restraint not to hit the man.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:41 PM   #447
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The latest well informed opposition I heard today on the healthplan, from a white man on medicare:

"Obama wants us all to be dependent on the state so we're just like all the other n***ers out there."

It took a lot of restraint not to hit the man.
aint Fox News great?
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:42 PM   #448
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I was thinking about this this morning actually.

Do you think that Obama perhaps overreached on this one. Was there some hubris, perhaps, to think that he could do what Clinton tried and failed to do?

I agree with your concise summation of the current situation, but at the risk of sounding overly pessimistic, I wonder if this country will ever accept any type of universal healthcare coverage. Maybe it's like the metric system. . .
I think his urgency has a lot to do with this... I have no doubt the country will wake up and we'll eventually be on some kind of universal system, but I'm not certain it will happen right now, but I'm pretty sure it will happen before his terms are up.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:53 PM   #449
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and, yes, i don't see the Left freaking out nearly as much as the Right.
But the left IS congress. The left has a big majority in the House and a 'super-majority' in the Senate. They don't NEED the right to pass this. So, if they aren't freaking out nearly as much as the right, then why hasn't the plan passed yet?

Moreover, it is the left that decided to push a plan with a public option instead of full single-payer universal healthcare, it is the left that has proven too afraid, for whatever reason, be it ideologically or politically, to cut the private insurance companies out altogether.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:27 PM   #450
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then why hasn't the plan passed yet?
Because Southern Democrats are unreliable partners, and they make up enough of the party to ensure that the Democratic leadership still has to bargain with right-wingers. These conservatives just happen to be in their own party, rather than as part of the opposition.
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