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Old 08-17-2009, 05:37 PM   #376
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There is no system in the world that couldn't use improving in some ways.

There have been cries for years now that our health care system is failing us. There has been talk about instituting a 2-tier system here that utilizes both public and private medicine. But guess who the worst of the doomsday folks are? The right wing. No surprise there, huh? Fortunately, Canadians are too attached to our current system to allow that to happen in any significant way.

Meanwhile, despite our supposed faults, we still have a higher life expectancy than the US, a lower infant mortality rate than the US, and we manage to do it for less money per capita than the US currently does.

So tell me again how we're failing?
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:41 PM   #377
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I think the biggest con of this whole debate are the working class conservatives that have been conned into defending the insurance companies. Defending them like they honestly believe the insurance companies have their back... WTF?! When I go to your homes, meet you at the hospital, or in the dr's office you can't wait to bitch about your insurance company, you can't wait to tell me how many times they've screwed you over and how they don't care, but now you want to defend them?

There is no real competition, they work in cohoots, they control the medical field, doctors will be the first to admit it... Oh, it infuriates me!
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:13 PM   #378
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I said this earlier in the thread, and I think it bears repeating:


Please, make yourselves heard. Write letters. Write to the White House, there's an e-mail address on their website. Tell Obama you don't want the public option dropped.

Exactly what I did yesterday.

www.whitehouse.gov
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:14 PM   #379
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Meanwhile, despite our supposed faults, we still have a higher life expectancy than the US, a lower infant mortality rate than the US, and we manage to do it for less money per capita than the US currently does.


be careful.

a post like this could wind up subjecting us all to the UN Human Development Index.
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:35 PM   #380
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Oh, c'mon. Anybody with any political knowledge whatsoever knows that the Nazi party is far right while socialism, specifically democratic socialism, is moderately left. What one party in Germany decided to call themselves doesn't change that.
I'll be more than happy to set you straight on the subject if you'd like to start a new thread.
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We are Socialists, enemies, mortal enemies of the present capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, with its injustice in wages, with its immoral evaluation of individuals according to wealth and money instead of responsibility and achievement, and we are determined under all circumstances to abolish this system !
--Gregor Stasser, Nazi ideologist
If they were right-wing they were right-wing socialists and only in comparison to Stalin and the Bolshevik revolutionaries.
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:50 PM   #381
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Meanwhile, despite our supposed faults, we still have a higher life expectancy than the US, a lower infant mortality rate than the US, and we manage to do it for less money per capita than the US currently does.

So tell me again how we're failing?
Life expectancy has very little to do with health care. It differs wildly just in the United States say between Washington D.C. and Fargo, North Dakota. And the differences have nothing to do with the quality or access to health care.

Infant mortality stats can be deceiving as well. Fact is, we deliver more high-risk or "difficult delivery" babies that frankly, other many countries would routinely abort, deemed as not worth the extra financial strain on the healthcare system.
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:59 PM   #382
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Am I the only one here who thinks a public option isn't enough? That Obama and the Democrats in congress are wrong when they say that we need a "uniquely American solution" that "incorporates public and private elements"? That there is no need for any private elements at all? That full-blown, 100%, real, authentic, universal healthcare, period, is the best option? This is driving me crazy. It's not even Republicans who are too afraid of full-blown universal healthcare...it's Democrats too!

We finally have a Democrat in the White House and Democratic control in congress, including a 60 seat super majority in the senate, universal healthcare should absolutely BREEZE through this congress, but it's not breezing through anything. It absolutely astonishes me that the idea of universal healthcare is causing this much fear and anxiety and debate. It floors me. It's not that complicated. Private insurance companies don't give a shit about any of us, their polices dictate that as soon as someone looks like they might actually need healthcare in the near future, they're not covered anymore. Universal healthcare gives more people coverage, and if the government is the provider, then our votes give us a small way of holding it accountable(it might not be much, but it's something), something we never ever have with private insurance companies.

Everybody should want full-blown universal healthcare, and when I hear SENATORS saying "We have to work together to find out a better solution, which is still a uniquely American solution, which is public and private. We’re not, you know, Great Britain. We’re not Canada. We’re not Netherlands[Added by me: (it's THE Netherlands, THE Netherlands, damn it!)]. We’re America", like Canada and Great Britain and the Netherlands are horrible, embarrassing places, it totally sucks hope out of me for our country. That's Max Baucus, a Democratic senator from Montana.

Bill Maher is right, we don't have a liberal party and a conservative party anymore, we have a conservative party and a crazy party.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:00 PM   #383
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I'll be more than happy to set you straight on the subject if you'd like to start a new thread.

Quote:
We are Socialists, enemies, mortal enemies of the present capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, with its injustice in wages, with its immoral evaluation of individuals according to wealth and money instead of responsibility and achievement, and we are determined under all circumstances to abolish this system !
--Gregor Stasser, Nazi ideologist
If they were right-wing they were right-wing socialists and only in comparison to Stalin and the Bolshevik revolutionaries.
Uh, no, that's okay, you don't need to "set me straight," thanks. I'm good.

And yes, I'd depend on a Nazi ideologue to accurately portray what the party became.

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Life expectancy has very little to do with health care. It differs wildly just in the United States say between Washington D.C. and Fargo, North Dakota. And the differences have nothing to do with the quality or access to health care.

Infant mortality stats can be deceiving as well. Fact is, we deliver more high-risk or "difficult delivery" babies that frankly, other many countries would routinely abort, deemed as not worth the extra financial strain on the healthcare system.
Are you for real? These things have little/nothing to do with access to or quality of health care? Must be superior genes, then.

Soooo, which countries routinely encourage aborting difficult pregnancies? Not here, that's for sure. That must be another right-wing bogeyman story. For the record, my difficult pregnancy/delivery was handled with the utmost care and concern by my health care providers, resulting in a beautiful and healthy baby girl. Abortion wasn't mentioned once. Nor do I know any other woman for whom abortion has ever been suggested.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:05 PM   #384
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Life expectancy has very little to do with health care. It differs wildly just in the United States say between Washington D.C. and Fargo, North Dakota. And the differences have nothing to do with the quality or access to health care.
How does one write this with a straight face?

"Nothing" do with quality or access to health care?

Doctors around the world's reaction =
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:07 PM   #385
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For the record, my difficult pregnancy/delivery was handled with the utmost care and concern by my health care providers, resulting in a beautiful and healthy baby girl.
Just think: if you had no insurance, or lived in a country with sub-standard health care, the world (meaning me) may have been denied wonderfully delicious cakes.

Sarah is making one for our communist Nazi socialist festival at the Rogers Centre, right?
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:13 PM   #386
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Are you for real? These things have nothing to do with access to or quality of health care? Must be superior genes, then.
Between N.D. and D.C, more to do with drug abuse and gang violence. And around the world, more to do with nutrition, lack of clean water and insect-borne disease.
Quote:
Soooo, which countries routinely encourage aborting difficult pregnancies? Not here, that's for sure. That must be another right-wing bogeyman story. For the record, my difficult pregnancy/delivery was handled with the utmost care and concern by my health care providers, resulting in a beautiful and healthy baby girl.
Sorry, I was referring to the propaganda states of China, Cuba, Russia et cetera.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:14 PM   #387
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Just think: if you had no insurance, or lived in a country with sub-standard health care, the world (meaning me) may have been denied wonderfully delicious cakes.

Sarah is making one for our communist Nazi socialist festival at the Rogers Centre, right?
I think she's making one depicting you beating meeting elfa. Either that or one of Lenin.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:17 PM   #388
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Between N.D. and D.C, more to do with drug abuse and gang violence. And around the world, more to do with nutrition and insect borne disease.
[/i]
And with the exception of violence, you don't think any of this ties in with health care?
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:21 PM   #389
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Between N.D. and D.C, more to do with drug abuse and gang violence. And around the world, more to do with nutrition and insect borne disease.
Do you understand statistics at all? Statistically, the number of violence-related deaths in the US would be so small compared to natural deaths that it wouldn't make a statistically significant difference in life expectancy for the nation. Same with drug-related deaths. The differences between places within the US doesn't matter - it's the whole that we're looking at when comparing numbers between countries. Urban vs rural deaths combine to make an average, just as they do in Canada. Also, we're not discussing nations for which lack of nutrition or insect-borne illness is a factor. Try again.

Discussing this minutiae is ridiculous, and just obfuscating the entire issue.


Eta - well said, namkcuR
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:53 PM   #390
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I think she's making one depicting you beating meeting elfa. Either that or one of Lenin.
It's going to be a great party for the motherland!
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