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Old 08-17-2009, 01:59 PM   #331
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it just boggles my Canadian mind that you will allow your government to remove your personal freedoms to "protect" you from terrorists, completely leave your economy to spiral into a cluster fuck of unprecedented greed and mismanagement, inoculate you with god knows what to "protect" you from Swine Flu and other coming plagues and pretty much destroy your country’s foreign policy through war and posturing but when it comes to health care - they apparently have gone too far.

my effete, liberal, elitist, northeastern-corridor, urban American mind as well.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:01 PM   #332
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What?

What?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Hour_Emergency_Target
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:04 PM   #333
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Yes, I'm aware of the goal, I'm just not sure why you think a focus on preventative health wouldn't change that.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:08 PM   #334
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Yes, I'm aware of the goal, I'm just not sure why you think a focus on preventative health wouldn't change that.
Well it seems that the UK already has a focus on preventative measures, as well as access to primary care physicians. Yet they still enjoy the same waiting time as we do.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:08 PM   #335
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Doesn't really help that 4 hour window that is the goal in the UK though.
We have that problem here, as well, to a certain degree. There are certain factors to keep in mind, though.

1) Our ERs operate on a triage system, where you're seen in order of priority. Everyone is assessed within a few minutes of arriving. So, if there are people coming in with life threatening conditions, they'll be seen immediately, people with the sniffles may have to wait.

2) For people with the sniffles, in addition to their primary care physicians (or instead of, in the case of people who don't have GPs), we also have after hours clinics they could go to that are more appropriate for treating minor things than the ER is.

3) I don't have a great deal of sympathy for people who go to the ER at 11 pm for a cold they've had for several days, and then find that they have to wait.

4) Much of the wait times are seasonal, having to do with levels of colds/flus in the community. Or, if there's a high level of traffic accidents on a given day/evening, they get behind as well.

All that said, my mom has to go to the ER when she has a chest cold, due to an underlying heart condition, because her GP's office and walk in clinics just don't have the testing equipment available to tell the difference between the two conditions. She is ALWAYS seen immediately.

5) Is the trade-off of having to wait a few hours for minor illnesses to be treated worth knowing that all people in this country are on a level playing field regarding the care that they receive, and that it's free, with no one being left out or financially devastated? Absolutely.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:13 PM   #336
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5) Is the trade-off of having to wait a few hours for minor illnesses to be treated worth knowing that all people in this country are on a level playing field regarding the care that they receive, and that it's free, with no one being left out or financially devastated? Absolutely.
Socialist.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:17 PM   #337
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Well it seems that the UK already has a focus on preventative measures, as well as access to primary care physicians. Yet they still enjoy the same waiting time as we do.
From my understanding their wait times are due to different factors. It's not due to a lot of people who are going in because they've let their diabetes go unchecked or they haven't had a physical in years.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:30 PM   #338
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Socialist.
Why do people fear that word so much? I bet that 90% of people don't even know what it really means.


Another thing I've been thinking of the past few days - it seems that relatively high numbers (60-something percent, I think I read) of people who were polled say that they're satisfied with their current health insurance.

Well, it's easy to be satisfied with co-pays, jumping through hoops for insurance companies, bureaucratic bs when that's the only system you know. If they only knew the ease of our system, how we don't have to spend even a second thinking of these things while enjoying a very high quality of care, I'm sure they'd change their tune.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:52 PM   #339
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On a personal level almost totally unrelated to this, I just got a call to interview at a rehab hospital I'd lovvve to end up working for.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:29 PM   #340
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On a personal level almost totally unrelated to this, I just got a call to interview at a rehab hospital I'd lovvve to end up working for.
Good luck!
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:38 PM   #341
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Why do people fear that word so much? I bet that 90% of people don't even know what it really means.

that's why they fear the word.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:53 PM   #342
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HSA's are great for young, healthy people.
You heard it here young, healthy Obama supporters. HSA's are "great" for you -- but guess who wants to legislate them out of existence?
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If you don't fit in that category, they suck.
Unless you've been contributing to one for 20 years and now have that reserve should you need it. The stock market sucks too if you've only been in it the past 5 years. But if one has been making steady contribution for the past 30 years you're still way ahead.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:08 PM   #343
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5) Is the trade-off of having to wait a few hours for minor illnesses to be treated worth knowing that all people in this country are on a level playing field regarding the care that they receive, and that it's free, with no one being left out or financially devastated? Absolutely.
I've never been to A&E in the UK, but I completely agree. I would never want to live in the US again under the current healthcare system.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:08 PM   #344
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Unless you've been contributing to one for 20 years and now have that reserve should you need it. The stock market sucks too if you've only been in it the past 5 years. But if one has been making steady contribution for the past 30 years you're still way ahead.
Who has the kind of money to invest in HSAs, 529 plans for each of your child's college educations, and 401K plans for retirement, in the face of stagnating wages and uncertain long-term market returns? Chains of violent market bubbles and bursts aren't exactly good for long-term investors.

There is a reason why so many elderly people lived in poverty prior to the introduction of the 1930s welfare state. That kind of self-centered conservative fantasy is wholly unrealistic, particularly since one unexpected illness can cost enough to wipe out anything you've invested over the years and then some.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:10 PM   #345
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And the thing is your big corporations (insurance and otherwise) don't actually want competition. . .don't forget that. Competition is great for the customer. Not so much for the company. Businesses engage in competitive pricing and such when they have to, but if they can avoid it they will. It would be interesting to note what the lobbyists for the healthcare industry are advocating in this ongoing debate. Whatever it is, you can be sure it is a position that reduces competition not increases it.
Very good point and one that is often forgotten. I was reminded of it when Wal*Mart of all companies came out in favor of mandatory employer-provided health care insurance. Why Wal*Mart? Well, they know they can absorb the costs better than smaller companies and should those smaller companies go under that's less competition for Wal*Mart. Yes it's true, big business loves to use big government to limit competition.

Interesting that the AMA, Pharma (a coalition of drug companies) and the insurance industry is all onboard with Obama and a larger government role.

So why not cut out the middleman or third-party, be it the inefficiencies and lobbyists of government or the profit model of private insurance, and buy most of your health care directly with your own money?
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