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Old 08-17-2009, 12:44 PM   #316
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John Stossel and Michael Moore on the role of government in healthcare.

YouTube - John Stossel - Sick in America - Part 4 (of 6)
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:44 PM   #317
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Maybe it was a staffing issue in your case. I was working as many hours as legally allowed when I worked for the hospital and we still didn't have enough help.
I don't think so-there were several doctors around and two people at the desk who talked and changed the tv channels.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:45 PM   #318
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Could be some apathy there too, but you'll have that no matter what. Claim chest pains, you'll always get seen faster.


I think the UK's service time just came down to four hours. Hopefully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Hour_Emergency_Target
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:48 PM   #319
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I had chest pains after I left-from stress and fatigue. They would have had to change the tv channel first. A pregnant lady came in, luckily she went up to labor and delivery (I assume) before she went into labor in the waiting area. A man came in and said he was vomiting and had to ask for a bag, they never offered him one. Luckily I was at the other side of the waiting area. I was worried about swine flu.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:51 PM   #320
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I don't think it's free, most people just use the ER if they don't have insurance because they can be seen there instead of a private doctor

I think that would be true in private hospitals-in places like county hospitals that aren't privately owned, I'm not sure about that.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:53 PM   #321
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it just boggles my Canadian mind that you will allow your government to remove your personal freedoms to "protect" you from terrorists, completely leave your economy to spiral into a cluster fuck of unprecedented greed and mismanagement, inoculate you with god knows what to "protect" you from Swine Flu and other coming plagues and pretty much destroy your country’s foreign policy through war and posturing but when it comes to health care - they apparently have gone too far.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:58 PM   #322
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et the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.
And the there's my friend who has a heart condition who couldn't get private insurance because of it.

If she'd only been more careful at her conception and during her fetal development.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:58 PM   #323
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I think that would be true in private hospitals-in places like county hospitals that aren't privately owned, I'm not sure about that.
I've only had experience with privately owned hospitals, the one I worked for was a Catholic hospital.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:09 PM   #324
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Can't give you more power or choices than letting you keep more of your money (tax code reform, HSA's), letting you purchase the type of coverage that fits your lifestyle, thus let the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.

Sick In America -- John Stossel
YouTube - John Stossel - Sick in America - Part 5 (of 6)

I'd recommend watching all 6 segments but this one is about insurance.
But what if the insurance company won't ALLOW you to buy the coverage that fits your lifestyle? What if they won't allow you to buy any sort of coverage at all? That's what I mean by giving the patients real power. It's like going into a store and saying, I'd like to buy that and the store says--"Nope, we won't sell that to you." This is what I'd like to see addressed.

I'll watch the videos on my lunch.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:32 PM   #325
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If it's free do you think the lines will be longer or shorter?
The only way emergency rooms will change is if more effort is put into preventative care, if you give people access to doctors, they will not have to wait till the problem becomes an emergency, this will be the only way emergency rooms change.

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Can't give you more power or choices than letting you keep more of your money (tax code reform, HSA's), letting you purchase the type of coverage that fits your lifestyle, thus let the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.
But this isn't how it works!!! You've been shown this time and time again and you choose to gloss over it because it doesn't fit your agenda. Do you still wonder why the words "misled" or "misinformed" are used so much?
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:36 PM   #326
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The only way emergency rooms will change is if more effort is put into preventative care, if you give people access to doctors, they will not have to wait till the problem becomes an emergency, this will be the only way emergency rooms change.


Doesn't really help that 4 hour window that is the goal in the UK though.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:39 PM   #327
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Doesn't really help that 4 hour window that is the goal in the UK though.
What?
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:44 PM   #328
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The videos were interesting. The first one, in particular was compelling. I like the idea of my employer putting funds into an HSA.

What about those who are self-employed? I assume they would just make their own HSA?

The second video really revealed Stoessel as an idealogue though, which makes me skeptical. It might interest you to know that I'm not a fan of Michael Moore for exactly the same reason. I haven't watched any of his recent films because you always get the sense with him that you're not getting the whole story, you're only getting the side he wants you to see. I got that same sense with Stoessel in the second video as well.

The profit motive can easily become greed, and when greed takes over especially in the arena of health care, people can really get hurt. The government does a poor job because of the lack of profit motive, but the private sector does a poor job as well when the profit motive outstripts the a commitment to doing the job it's supposed to do. When making money becomes more important than providing the service, we have a problem.

And the thing is your big corporations (insurance and otherwise) don't actually want competition. . .don't forget that. Competition is great for the customer. Not so much for the company. Businesses engage in competitive pricing and such when they have to, but if they can avoid it they will. It would be interesting to note what the lobbyists for the healthcare industry are advocating in this ongoing debate. Whatever it is, you can be sure it is a position that reduces competition not increases it.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:52 PM   #329
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HSA's are great for young, healthy people. If you don't fit in that category, they suck.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:52 PM   #330
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it just boggles my Canadian mind that you will allow your government to remove your personal freedoms to "protect" you from terrorists, completely leave your economy to spiral into a cluster fuck of unprecedented greed and mismanagement, inoculate you with god knows what to "protect" you from Swine Flu and other coming plagues and pretty much destroy your country’s foreign policy through war and posturing but when it comes to health care - they apparently have gone too far.
You socialist immoral bastard.
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