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Old 08-13-2009, 01:53 PM   #226
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I can never imagine you as being that type. Never. I mean, that's not the feeling I get by reading your posts. Noooo-ooo way.
You're obtuse.
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:53 PM   #227
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eh hmmm

Does insurance cover it now? How is this any different?

I think specific language would get tricky in the sense of what if a woman's life was on the line...
Federal funds can currently be used for medical (rape, life of the mother complications) abortions only. Let's make the wording clear, either way, so that the American people understand, beforehand, what the bill does and doesn't cover.
That's a good idea everyone can agree on right?
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:00 PM   #228
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Federal funds can currently be used for medical (rape, life of the mother complications) abortions only. Let's make the wording clear, either way, so that the American people understand, beforehand, what the bill does and doesn't cover.
That's a good idea everyone can agree on right?
So then how would you word it? There are many many many women that are raped and can't prove it.

What is the wording currently?
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:08 PM   #229
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:12 PM   #230
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What I like about HR 3200 (the version of the health care reform bill I read and no I didn't read it all):

Background, I work for a large university, our health care functions much like that of the government. We get to choose amongst several plans from several companies, including HMO's and our in house PPO. Our plans are actually quite affordable, why because there are so many employees that the university can negotiate good rates. This is essentially what the health care reform bill wants to do. They want to create a pool for individuals and small business to help get them a better rate and more options.

Additionally, there is actual reform to the health insurance process. Thankfully, I've been healthy and thankfully when my father got cancer he was working for the state and had good insurance. However, not everyone is that fortunate and this bill also has provisions for reforming insurance claims and of course the practice of not insuring people with previous conditions.
First, wouldn't you rather own your health insurance instead of being tied to your employer? Hopefully you are satisfied with your job but wouldn't it suck to have to cling to a lousy job you hate, simply for the health benefits. What kind of freedom is that?

Second, ask your employer, if they don't already, to estimate the value of your health benefits and then calculate that as a percentage of your total pay. Then be alert to the proposed penalty that Congress would impose on employers that fail to offer their employees health coverage. 8% is the figure I've heard thrown around most often.

The Trojan horse that many of us fear in a public option is this. What will happen to employer provided insurance if congress mandates mandatory coverage that is more expensive than the penalty not to provide insurance?

What would you do if you were an employer?
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:14 PM   #231
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Wouldn't you rather own your health insurance instead of being tied to your employer?
How many do this now? A very small percentage, and it's usually because they have to...

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The Trojan horse that many of us fear in a public option is this. What will happen to employer provided insurance if congress mandates mandatory coverage that is more expensive than the penalty not to provide insurance?

What would you do if you were an employer?
Most employers would love the idea of not having to provide insurance. I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here...
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:27 PM   #232
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Most employers would love the idea of not having to provide insurance. I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here...
I'm asking, how can the president assures us that we can keep our insurance if we so choose, if financial incentives and a process for employers to stop providing health insurance to their employees are possibly being put into place?
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:39 PM   #233
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I'm asking, how can the president assures us that we can keep our insurance if we so choose, if financial incentives and a process for employers to stop providing health insurance to their employees is being put into place?
Employer provided insurance wan't always common place, it's funny that conservatives are trying to defend it now seeing as they fought against it at first, it was the unions that made insurance common place and you had to provide it in order to be competitive.

I once again find it very strange that you want profit seekers who know nothing about health care deciding costs and if you are worth being covered in the first place yet a government that wants to cover you scares you...
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:40 PM   #234
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INDY you never did answer my other question...
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:00 PM   #235
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First, wouldn't you rather own your health insurance instead of being tied to your employer? Hopefully you are satisfied with your job but wouldn't it suck to have to cling to a lousy job you hate, simply for the health benefits. What kind of freedom is that?
This is the situation many people are in right now. Privately owned insurance is nice except its expensive compared to employee provided coverage and sometimes you aren't even allowed to buy it if the insurance company doesn't want to cover you. How would the new plan make this situation worse?

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Second, ask your employer, if they don't already, to estimate the value of your health benefits and then calculate that as a percentage of your total pay. Then be alert to the proposed penalty that Congress would impose on employers that fail to offer their employees health coverage. 8% is the figure I've heard thrown around most often.

The Trojan horse that many of us fear in a public option is this. What will happen to employer provided insurance if congress mandates mandatory coverage that is more expensive than the penalty not to provide insurance?

What would you do if you were an employer?
I'm not clear on what the current regs are. Are some companies required to provide insurance for their employees? I know some aren't which is why they want to require all employers to provide insurance, but then doesn't that mean that right now for some companies the choice is between providing health benefits and not providing them (with the second one being cheaper). How is that better than the choice between providing coverage or paying a penalty?

And isn't the whole point of the public option to provide a cheaper alternative to private companies, so why would you think that the public option would be more expensive thus leading employers to pay the penalty rather than provide coverage? Isn't this why insurance companies are opposed to a public option because they fear it will drive down costs (and thus profits?)
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:03 PM   #236
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Employer provided insurance wan't always common place, it's funny that conservatives are trying to defend it now seeing as they fought against it at first, it was the unions that made insurance common place and you had to provide it in order to be competitive.
That's not correct.

It was an unintended consequence of WWII government wage and price controls and has been cemented into place over the years by the tax code.
Just to make myself clear, I wish to see that relationship ended with Americans free to buy their own insurance, which they can take from job to job, without the tax penalties they now suffer.
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:16 PM   #237
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This is the situation many people are in right now. Privately owned insurance is nice except its expensive compared to employee provided coverage and sometimes you aren't even allowed to buy it if the insurance company doesn't want to cover you. How would the new plan make this situation worse?
The tax code must be changed to end the exemption for employer-based insurance and give a credit to those that buy insurance themselves. McCain got pilloried by the Obama campaign for proposing this but of course now democrats are floating the idea of taxing health benefits.
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And isn't the whole point of the public option to provide a cheaper alternative to private companies, so why would you think that the public option would be more expensive thus leading employers to pay the penalty rather than provide coverage? Isn't this why insurance companies are opposed to a public option because they fear it will drive down costs (and thus profits?)
The public option becomes your insurance by default. If reform provisions state through mandates that all insurance policies must provide X, and the penalty not to do so is Y. What would you do, as an employer, if X is greater than Y? And as an employee, if your employer drops coverage you then have no other choice, other than looking for a another job, but to sign up for the public option.

Is that freedom?
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:48 PM   #238
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And isn't the whole point of the public option to provide a cheaper alternative to private companies?
The public option will be cheaper...the government can tax or print more money to subsidize an individual's public option premium. Or simply short pay your doctor.

Not to mention that under the Health Insurance Exchange the government will have complete control over who its competitors will be. At least that's how I read the legislation. Seems to be a stacked deck
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:02 PM   #239
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Ed Stein was the cartoonist at the (dearly departed) Rocky Mountain News. He has his own website now, EdSteinInk.com, and his cartoons are as brilliant as ever. He always writes something brief to go with them, but today he dedicated his time and space to this column. It's spot-on.

The Speech I Want Obama To GiveBy Ed Stein | August 12th, 2009
My fellow Americans, I’m speaking to you today from the Oval Office on a subject of great importance to all of us. The past few weeks have seen the debate over health care reform turn into an ugly, angry, divisive shouting match. Senators and Congressmen have been shouted down, insulted, even threatened at town hall meeting all across the country, meetings designed to help inform the people of this country about the complex issues confronting us. I am ashamed and embarrassed by the behavior of Americans who should know better. I call upon the American people to stop the shouting, to restrain your anger, and to engage instead in a respectful conversation. I ask my colleagues in the Republican Party, the television and radio commentators and others who have stoked the anger and encouraged the mob mentality that has taken over this debate to appeal for calm and for a restoration of a civil dialogue.
So much misinformation has been disseminated, so much fear has been spread, that it is difficult to even know where to begin. A final health care plan has not been submitted to me. The details of the plans working their way through Congress are still being negotiated. It is my hope that a bipartisan agreement can still be achieved for a comprehensive reform of America’s health care system. So let us not debate the details of a program which has yet to be made final.
The real debate is about what kind of country we want to live in. I ask all Americans, whatever your political leanings, whatever your profession, whatever your income, to ask yourself these fundamental questions. Do you want to live in a country where almost 50 million of your fellow Americans are without health insurance? Do you want to live in a country where 20,000 people a year die of preventable or curable illnesses because the don’t have access to adequate health care? Do you want to live in a country where 2 million people a year go bankrupt because of medical costs, where 1.5 million homes are foreclosed because people have run out of money paying for medical care, where if you lose your job you lose your health insurance, a country where you can be denied health insurance because you have a pre-existing medical condition? A country where a sudden illness can destroy your economic future, even if you have a job and health insurance?
If you find those conditions acceptable, then we need do nothing, because that’s the country you live in now. Alone in the industrialized world, America, the wealthiest nation on earth, is the only country which allows these things to happen. Our current system of health care is broken, fatally broken, and when I took the job as President, I made it my first priority to fix it. I do not, I cannot believe, that Americans want the status quo to continue.
Now ask yourselves another question. What do the shouting mobs who are drowning out the debate offer in place of what we are proposing? What do the angry opponents want, other than the status quo? Do they have a plan for solving the problems? They offer you nothing but opposition to fixing what is broken. Some for political reasons; they simply want to hand my administration a defeat. Some because they fear that any change will affect their corporate bottom line. Those who have accumulated fabulous wealth from a system that impoverishes millions want to keep the money flowing. Some oppose change because they are ideologically opposed to anything that government might propose. Some because they fear any change. No wonder they are shouting. They cannot offer you a genuine solution to our broken health care system, so they drown out the voices of hope and change instead.
My fellow Americans, we are better than this. We are a nation which has always found a way to solve our most vexing problems. Even when the issues were the most divisive, we have pulled together in the darkest of hours and forged solutions to the most difficult of issues. Today I call upon all Americans to lower our voices, to listen to each other, to speak calmly and respectfully, and to work together to build a health care system that will provide excellent, affordable medical care to every citizen of this great country.
Thank you, and may God bless America.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:17 PM   #240
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The public option will be cheaper...the government can tax or print more money to subsidize an individual's public option premium. Or simply short pay your doctor.

Not to mention that under the Health Insurance Exchange the government will have complete control over who its competitors will be. At least that's how I read the legislation. Seems to be a stacked deck
Good points.

Important to remember that this legislation is being drafted, and is being endorsed all by a president, who all favor single payer insurance... even "if we can't get there right away."
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