MANDATORY health insurance - Page 14 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-11-2009, 08:16 PM   #196
Self-righteous bullshitter
 
BoMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Soviet Canuckistan — Socialist paradise
Posts: 16,665
Local Time: 05:48 PM
I found this post on one of the links posted earlier interesting:

Quote:
As Jon Stewart got Bill Kristol to admit last night, the government also does an excellent job of providing high-quality health care to the military (although Kristol seems to think that the rest of us poor slobs don't deserve it):
Bill Kristol Extended Interview | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

And, of course, members of Congress also get government-run health care. Somehow these facts never make it into the conversation.
__________________

__________________

BoMac is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:37 PM   #197
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
So you're saying that the poor are already more than adequately served in this country in terms of health care?

Could you elaborate on how the Democratic Healthcare reform bill seeks to makes us all dependant on the state for our healthcare, and why, exactly, would the Democrats want this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
and one more question. ..

How is this:


the same as this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Well, if the Democrats aren't really about health care, then it the Republicans better damn well get on their game and come up with some solutions of their own.
Just thought I'd sum up my unanswered questions for you, INDY, in one handy recap post.
__________________

__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:48 PM   #198
ONE
love, blood, life
 
U2isthebest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vision over visibility....
Posts: 12,332
Local Time: 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoMac View Post
I found this post on one of the links posted earlier interesting:
I literally stood up and cheered during that interview last week. Jon Stewart destroyed Kristol who, once again, showed his uncanny knack for, shall we say, 'not knowing what the hell he's talking about'. The best part is when Stewart asked him about the obvious fact of the troops getting government health care and Kristol responded with "They deserve it more". The audience booed him, rightfully, and Jon was incredulous. To paraphrase Jon said of course our veterans are worthy of the best, free health care imaginable, but how could he (Bill) say they deserve it but not every other American citizen who works hard and sacrifices, but still doesn't have the resources to pay big medical bills. Bill, like most Conservative blowhards, didn't really have a valid response.
__________________
U2isthebest is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:58 PM   #199
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 03:48 PM
Come on guys!!! The military deserve socialism, the common folk don't. It's pretty simple.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:21 PM   #200
ONE
love, blood, life
 
U2isthebest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vision over visibility....
Posts: 12,332
Local Time: 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Come on guys!!! The military deserve socialism, the common folk don't. It's pretty simple.
Nobody creates as much unintentional irony as the right-wingers. It's pretty much their only contribution to the political discourse.
__________________
U2isthebest is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 10:57 PM   #201
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
And where's the evidence after 40 years, that the United States government can manage, administer and fund healthcare without going into debt?
But there's always another politician to say "If we just spend more money we can fix the system."
Now you might believe that but I know better.



would you support "free" healthcare for the unborn?
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 08-12-2009, 11:59 AM   #202
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Just thought I'd sum up my unanswered questions for you, INDY, in one handy recap post.
Why don't you or another supporter of the bill tell me what I should like about it. Tell me what you like about it. Is it just the goals or can you point to specifics that you think are a really good ideas.

After all, I recognize our current system is in need of reform. I can see the problems of rising costs and gaps in coverage for Americans.

If we can't agree on everything, what in the bill could we agree on?

If this is a townhall, I've had my say. I want to hear those others in support.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 01:16 PM   #203
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
trojanchick99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Los Feliz, CA (between Hollywood and Downtown LA)
Posts: 8,090
Local Time: 01:48 PM
What I like about HR 3200 (the version of the health care reform bill I read and no I didn't read it all):

Background, I work for a large university, our health care functions much like that of the government. We get to choose amongst several plans from several companies, including HMO's and our in house PPO. Our plans are actually quite affordable, why because there are so many employees that the university can negotiate good rates. This is essentially what the health care reform bill wants to do. They want to create a pool for individuals and small business to help get them a better rate and more options.

Additionally, there is actual reform to the health insurance process. Thankfully, I've been healthy and thankfully when my father got cancer he was working for the state and had good insurance. However, not everyone is that fortunate and this bill also has provisions for reforming insurance claims and of course the practice of not insuring people with previous conditions.
__________________
trojanchick99 is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 01:37 PM   #204
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 03:48 PM
Anything that causes this many urban legends like "death panels" has to be awesome.

It gives wider coverage. A moral victory right there.

It doesn't allow pharma and insurance companies to set prices and control healthcare as much as they do now, it will force private insurance companies to actually be competitive for once.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 08-12-2009, 01:39 PM   #205
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Why don't you or another supporter of the bill tell me what I should like about it. Tell me what you like about it. Is it just the goals or can you point to specifics that you think are a really good ideas.

After all, I recognize our current system is in need of reform. I can see the problems of rising costs and gaps in coverage for Americans.

If we can't agree on everything, what in the bill could we agree on?

If this is a townhall, I've had my say. I want to hear those others in support.
Nice way to sidestep some tough questions, but okay. . .I'll let you get buy with it.

My research consisted of looking at the White House's website on what Obama wants in a health care reform package. I also read the TIME magazine cover article from two weeks ago that has a really handy users guide on how reform would affect various parties. I took a glance at the text of HR 3200, but it will take awhile to wade through that and I do have work I need to do today.

Based on all that, here's what I like (with the caveat that I understand that it may or not be in the current bill that's in Congress).

I like the idea of a public option for insurance.

I like the idea of stopping insurers from denying coverage to those with pre-existing conditions.

I would be okay with making purchasing/having health insurance a requirement (like how it is with car insurance) but I'd also accept giving people the option to purchase insurance. I prefer the former because I think there are people out there who won't buy insurance if they don't have to, even if they can afford it, and those people end up costing us all when they show up at the emergency room. Still I know many would balk at the idea of being forced to buy insurance so I could live without that.

The big problem I would see with reform as I've described would be the cost involved, especially if you're talking about forming a huge new federal agency. Supposedly people paying into the pubic option could help pay for it, but the subsidies needed to cover everybody who can't afford to buy would be pretty big, I'm guessing. My hunch is that it will mean an increase in taxes.

I see a lot that the insurance companies would hate about this type of reform--if Congress simply passed a law that required everyone to buy insurance, I imagine the insurance companies would be elated with that.

Those are some of my initial thoughts.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 01:54 PM   #206
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Anything that causes this many urban legends like "death panels" has to be awesome.

It is the intentional 'big lie'

the goal is to confuse and scare enough to prevent anything from passing

it worked before

89.3 KPCC | Kill Grandma? Debunking a health bill scare tactic
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 05:14 PM   #207
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
purpleoscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,597
Local Time: 02:48 PM
There's lots of different options:

Health in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Healthcare in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Health care in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Healthcare in Taiwan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All these systems cost money. If the public wants an idea on how to save on health costs they should learn to eat better than McDonalds and put together a prayer or meditation practice to reduce stress:

YouTube - vital.signs.okinawa.diet.bk.c.cnn_576x324_dl.flv

YouTube - Secret of long life in Okinawa

YouTube - Matthieu Ricard: Habits of happiness

I personally would prefer at least a system that had competition in the delivery of the service even if the funding is collected via payroll taxes but none of that really matters if the culture doesn't focus on prevention. Catastrophic care (and pre-existing conditions at birth) won't be as costly to the public if the great majority of the population made better choices after being born healthy in the first place. The few times I ate at a fast food restaurant I didn't remember feeling satisfied or felt that I couldn't cook healthier, better tasting food myself.
__________________
purpleoscar is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 05:18 PM   #208
Refugee
 
Bluer White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,886
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Here is a link to a 1000+ page House version of the bill:
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

I'd like to know if I'm understanding the choice to keep your current coverage.

This is on Page 16. A person would be grandfathered in if their coverage was in full effect before Y1 (Y1 is 2013). That means if you like your coverage you can keep it. However, at the bottom of page 16, the bill seems to forbid any change to your current plan. No change to terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing." Does that mean I'm not allowed to change my deductible or any provisions of my agreement? That's quite a clause.

Page 19. Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.

So that means there will be a Health Insurance Exchange for me to choose plans from. And I probably won't have a choice outside this exchange. Ok, how's it going to run?

Page 41. There will be a Health Choices Administration. The Administration shall be headed by a Health Choices Commissioner (in this division referred to as the ‘‘Commissioner’’) who shall be appointed by the President.

Page 42. The Commissioner is responsible for carrying out the following functions under this division: (1) QUALIFIED PLAN STANDARDS.—The establishment of qualified health benefits plan standards under this title, including the enforcement of such standards in coordination with State insurance regulators and the Secretaries of Labor and the Treasury.
(2) HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE.—The establishment and operation of a Health Insurance Exchange under subtitle A of title II.



So...if I want to make ANY change to my current plan, I am not able to. I AM allowed to choose the public plan, or choose from private plans in an Exchange, but only if the private plan is blessed by a presidentially-appointed "Commissioner."

I guess I'm skeptical of who will be making the decisions here.
__________________
Bluer White is online now  
Old 08-12-2009, 06:05 PM   #209
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 03:48 PM
Quote:
at the bottom of page 16, the bill seems to forbid any change to your current plan. No change to terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing." Does that mean I'm not allowed to change my deductible or any provisions of my agreement? That's quite a clause.
My understanding is that your provider can't make these changes once the public plan goes into effect, but you can...

Quote:
I guess I'm skeptical of who will be making the decisions here.
Do you honestly think you are making the decisions now?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 08-12-2009, 06:53 PM   #210
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post

So...if I want to make ANY change to my current plan, I am not able to. I AM allowed to choose the public plan, or choose from private plans in an Exchange, but only if the private plan is blessed by a presidentially-appointed "Commissioner."

I guess I'm skeptical of who will be making the decisions here.
Thanks for the link Bluer White. From my reading of the pages you cited, it sounds like the limitatons are placed on the insurance issuer, not on you. It seems to be designed to keep the insurance companies from changing your coverage after Year 1--you know suddenly saying--oh, sorry we can't cover that procedure anymore.

As for the Health Commissioner, I think that's just the person whose going to run the public program and coordinate all of this new policy. It doesn't really strike me as draconian at all. Is the program supposed to run itself. I would say, though that setting up an essentially new agency is bound to be expensive. It would be nice if it could at least pay for itself.

I do find it interesting that people are so worried about the government bureaucrats deciding what kind of medical treatments they'll pay for, yet they are okay with businessmen in the insurance industry making the exact same decisions.
__________________

__________________
maycocksean is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com