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Old 08-11-2009, 05:41 PM   #181
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If you only knew how much more we in the United States pay for prescription drugs because Canadians enjoy a government price-controlled discount.
I would urge you to get better informed on this topic. Seems to me that a free-market lover like you would have a better understanding of what exactly it is that has resulted in the low prices (and the government regulation is one, and ultimately, minor, factor).
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:45 PM   #182
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Sarcasm is the easy part.

You know, we rightly take pride in the millions of lives saved in Africa with immunization shots and Antiretroviral drugs without even stopping to ponder why it is we who are in the position to offer amazing, lifesaving technologies to those trapped in utter, systemic despair and not the other way around.

(hint) It's not because we are better people.
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:48 PM   #183
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Interesting that you use this as an example.

Given that it was those socialist Canadians who discovered insulin as a treatment for diabetes, and subsequently "sold" that discovery to Eli Lilly.

So yes, we owe it to the communists in this instance, imagine that.
And I'm guessing you sold it for a profit.
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:52 PM   #184
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Sarcasm is the easy part.

You know, we rightly take pride in the millions of lives saved in Africa with immunization shots and Antiretroviral drugs without even stopping to ponder why it is we who are in the position to offer amazing, lifesaving technologies to those trapped in utter, systemic despair and not the other way around.

(hint) It's not because we are better people.
Another great example that backfires in your face...

We've been immunized for how long? But they haven't because why? It's not profittable for big pharma. Yay free markets.

You just don't seem to understand, yes research needs money but it still strives outside of greed and obscene inhumane business practices.
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:59 PM   #185
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And I'm guessing you sold it for a profit.
And no one said profit is wrong, or that it won't still exists...

I appreciate that you have been the only one to attempt to offer an alternative but the alternative was extremely short sighted and is based on some bad assumptions.

I asked you about sources for your numbers and I got nothing.

You seem to avoid any example that proves your stance incorrect...

I'm sorry but I just haven't yet found anyone that really has a legitimate reason against or that is truly informed about their opposition.

I agree that the speed can be overwhelming and that the devil's in the details, but everything else just seems uninformed partisan line towing...
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:59 PM   #186
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And I'm guessing you sold it for a profit.
And that just shows that you pretty much know nothing about who developed insulin, when, how, or the huge amounts of money that he decided to turn DOWN from various sources. But I guess he was just a socialist in the end.

Banting chose to collaborate with Eli Lilly in exchange for them being granted exclusive rights to sell insulin for 12 months in the US.

I think it must seem foreign to you that he wasn't driven by profit margins....
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:15 PM   #187
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And that just shows that you pretty much know nothing about who developed insulin, when, how, or the huge amounts of money that he decided to turn DOWN from various sources. But I guess he was just a socialist in the end.

Banting chose to collaborate with Eli Lilly in exchange for them being granted exclusive rights to sell insulin for 12 months in the US.

I think it must seem foreign to you that he wasn't driven by profit margins....
I was talking about recombinant dna human insulin you know? Not the old pork or beef insulin. I had to look up the exact date but Frederick Banting died in 1941. 30 years before the recombinant dna research of the 70's and 40 years before Humulin hit the market.

Great scientist, but I don't think he had much to do with the technology I was talking up.
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:23 PM   #188
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Great scientist, but I don't think he had much to do with the technology I was talking up.
It was Banting's discovery that led to the production of Humulin, that much should be obvious to you.

Much like Edward Jenner's work is what ultimately led to the development of the smallpox vaccine, and why he is considered the father of immunology in general.

But since you seem intent on showing the rest of the world how superior Americans are, keep at it. The other 6 billion of us don't see that sort of attitude as anything new.
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:32 PM   #189
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I appreciate that you have been the only one to attempt to offer an alternative but the alternative was extremely short sighted and is based on some bad assumptions.

I asked you about sources for your numbers and I got nothing.
And I asked you if they were wrong. You could always look them up you know BVS. Took me about a minute.
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The United States currently operates under a mixed market health care system. Government sources (federal, state, and local) account for 45% of U.S. health care expenditures. Private sources account for the remainder with 38% of people receiving health coverage through their employer and 17% arising from other private payment such as private insurance and out-of-pocket copays.
Health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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You seem to avoid any example that proves your stance incorrect...

I'm sorry but I just haven't yet found anyone that really has a legitimate reason against or that is truly informed about their opposition.
Kinda like same-sex marriage right? Not one, one legitimate reason at all to be against it and only an uniformed individual would think otherwise.
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I agree that the speed can be overwhelming and that the devil's in the details, but everything else just seems uninformed partisan line towing...
And all those folks with the identical "Health Care Reform Now!" and "Health Care For America" signs each studied and read the bill at hand closely and with great deliberation before aligning themselves with the Democrats on this issue. Right?
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:33 PM   #190
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It was Banting's discovery that led to the production of Humulin, that much should be obvious to you.

Much like Edward Jenner's work is what ultimately led to the development of the smallpox vaccine, and why he is considered the father of immunology in general.

But since you seem intent on showing the rest of the world how superior Americans are, keep at it. The other 6 billion of us don't see that sort of attitude as anything new.
I think it's part of the American exceptionalism creed. Thou shall not admit the accomplishments of others nor the weaknesses of ourselves.
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:43 PM   #191
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And I asked you if they were wrong. You could always look them up you know BVS. Took me about a minute.
And I admitted to you that I didn't know. I've never seen it broken down that way and that's why I was asking. I did a search and couldn't find a consistent answer, that's why I was honestly asking you for a source. These wiki numbers coincide with some of the sites I saw, but not with others, none of the sites I considered to be incredibly reliable, that's why I didn't post them. But thank you.


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Kinda like same-sex marriage right? Not one, one legitimate reason at all to be against it and only an uniformed individual would think otherwise.
No this subject is not nearly as cut and dry. I'm not saying that I haven't seen a legitimate reason because there isn't one, I haven't seen one because I've only been offered very little from conservatives on this issue.

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And all those folks with the identical "Health Care Reform Now!" and "Health Care For America" signs each studied and read the bill at hand closely and with great deliberation before aligning themselves with the Democrats on this issue. Right?
Nope. It's kinda like religion, some actually study it and choose it because it's the right religion for them, others are born into it, and others just because it's convenient. That's just life.
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:53 PM   #192
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It was Banting's discovery that led to the production of Humulin, that much should be obvious to you.

Much like Edward Jenner's work is what ultimately led to the development of the smallpox vaccine, and why he is considered the father of immunology in general.

But since you seem intent on showing the rest of the world how superior Americans are, keep at it. The other 6 billion of us don't see that sort of attitude as anything new.
All I can say is, if Frederick Banting invented recombinant DNA (a technique not even proposed until decades after he was dead) insulin then Guy Lombardo surely invented rock n roll.

I don't wish to denigrate the good professor's contributions to medicine and humanity in any way, but let's stick to facts shall we.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:27 PM   #193
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No this subject is not nearly as cut and dry. I'm not saying that I haven't seen a legitimate reason because there isn't one, I haven't seen one because I've only been offered very little from conservatives on this issue.
And where's the evidence after 40 years, that the United States government can manage, administer and fund healthcare without going into debt?
But there's always another politician to say "If we just spend more money we can fix the system."
Now you might believe that but I know better.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:33 PM   #194
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All I can say is, if Frederick Banting invented recombinant DNA (a technique not even proposed until decades after he was dead) insulin then Guy Lombardo surely invented rock n roll.

I don't wish to denigrate the good professor's contributions to medicine and humanity in any way, but let's stick to facts shall we.
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Sarcasm is the easy part.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:39 PM   #195
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And where's the evidence after 40 years, that the United States government can manage, administer and fund healthcare without going into debt?
But there's always another politician to say "If we just spend more money we can fix the system."
Now you might believe that but I know better.
At what point is human life put to the wayside of $$$?

Conservatives never worry about where the money is coming from when it comes down to a new missle system for space that can wipe out the Middle East a few times, but when it comes to the healthcare of it's own citizens then they put their foot down? LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...
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