Male Nudity And Equality

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

MrsSpringsteen

Blue Crack Addict
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
29,223
Location
Edge's beanie closet
I thought this was an interesting article, given the fact that female nudity in cable TV and the movies has been basically a given for quite a while and male nudity is still far more taboo. Apparently Viggo is full frontal naked in his new movie.

Do men think it is disempowering or icky?

http://www.observer.com/2007/members-only?page=0,0

In one of the many (many) startling scenes in the new HBO drama Tell Me You Love Me, which debuted Sunday night, a young, attractive married couple sit side by side on a sofa, watching a boxing match on TV. The wife unbuckles her husband’s pants, and after some noisy kissing, she pulls away and says, “I want to see it.” She sees it and—holy cow—so do we.

Over the past few months, the breathy buzz on the show—about married and almost-married couples in various stages of intimacy-related despair and dishabille—has centered on the amount of its frank sexual content. And it was there all right—from minute two, when a man masturbates under the covers, to real-time full-monty couplings, to angelic, white-haired Jane Alexander kissing meaningfully down her husband’s graying chest. Throughout the hour, as bodies moved and eyefuls of flesh and bikini waxes flashed, it was still the sight of that erect penis being clinically manipulated into a graphic orgasm that prompted did-I-just-see-what-I-think-I-saw gapes from less action-packed couches nationwide.

“That scene … who knew that would be the most shocking?” said Tell Me You Love Me’s 47-year-old creator Cynthia Mort, a day after the show’s premiere. She insisted that when she wrote the pilot, she was not thinking about sackfuls of sex on the show. “I have to say, some of the guys [actors] were more squeamish than the women were about taking their clothes off. They’re not used to it. They’re not used to being exposed in every way,” she said. “One thing the show is doing, I hope, is giving guys a voice emotionally. You can’t do that unless you’re honest and authentic in every way. If that means showing them in bed nude … well, I don’t know a guy who has sex with his underwear on.”

But if a casual survey of initial male reaction to the show is any gauge, many men may not be so keen to be given a voice emotionally if it also means the male member is going to be on conspicuous, prime-time display. Just as the cinematic baring of female breasts led many women to compare themselves and despair, putting the male organ out their for public consumption may strike many men as disempowering, deflating and just plain icky.

“Male nudity—full-frontal nudity—has always been considered a lot more taboo than female nudity,” said Darren Star, executive producer of Sex and the City. “As far back as I can remember, there’s been a double standard between men and women. I think it’s time that men get equal time in terms of nudity.”
 
firstly, i am all for full-frontal male nudity. :up:

the double-standard is complex, and it mostly comes from straight male writers and directors who tend to put their own biases on the screen. but what is a more understandable reason for the lack of male nudity is the self-consciousness of the male actors themselves. one big difference between male genetalia and female genetalia is that the male genetalia is all out there for the world to see where as female genatalia is up inside the body. and men have been brutally judged on the size of their package by women, and by each other.

how many penis size jokes are there? are you a grower or a shower? you'll notice that while we'll see naked female and pubic hair, we do not see "the pink," as it were, outside of actual pornography. so it's not quite fair to say that full-frontal male nudity is the same thing as what we consider full-frontal female nudity.

that said, i thought the show was very interesting (and very well decorated -- i want the hand-job couple's house), and i thought the graphic male orgasm was absolutely approprite to the plot of the show, as the couple was dealing with difficulty conceiving, and it looks like his semen was the problem, and so she wanted to really see it. i also thought it was good for us to see old people being passionate with each other. granted, these are two great looking "old" people, but all the same, we're not used to seeing people with white hair french kissing.

i also think it's interesting that the show is about monogamous couples. this isn't about being a player, nor is the sex all that sexy. it does strike me as mostly honest, the only dishonest part being that most people aren't as beautiful (and well decorated) as the couples on the show.
 
oh, and i think people in general, mostly men, need to get over their reaction to the visual presentation of a penis.

you have one too. watching something that shows a penis doesn't mean you're gay.

get over it.
 
Irvine511 said:
one big difference between male genetalia and female genetalia is that the male genetalia is all out there for the world to see where as female genatalia is up inside the body. and men have been brutally judged on the size of their package by women, and by each other.


Not only that, but there's the big difference of the male genetalia HAVING to be stimulated in order to perform and the female doesn't. We've seen fully frontal male nude before, although much much less than female, but this is probably the first time I've seen erect male nude in "mainstream" cinema. They showed more than in soft core porn. Although I'm pretty sure prostetics were used in the handjob scene.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:

Although I'm pretty sure prostetics were used in the handjob scene.



i thought it was real, Memphis said no.

the ejaculation did seem a bit mechanical, like someone pulled a trigger.
 
Last edited:
BonosSaint said:
I'm sure mainstream can afford to hire a few fluffers.



true, but if you're a big movie star, and you're averaged sized (6" erect), then you're going to be called "unfortunate" by the mainstream media. (remember the Jude Law thing?)

and people think Britney has it bad.

at least with your body you can exercise. you can't do a damn thing about your penis size.
 
Irvine511 said:




i thought it was real, Memphis said know.

the ejaculation did seem a bit mechanical, like someone pulled a trigger.

Being that the pants were still on, and the fact he's still a mainstream actor and there's a lot of issues that would be going on, i.e. performace anxiety in front of camera, significant others, etc I just assumed it was fake... but who knows?

Well besides those two. :wink:
 
BonosSaint said:
Cock double?


lol, quite possibly.

but, seriously, last weekend i was flipping through the channels and came across "Bridges of Madison County." it's an okay movie, but Meryl is positively brilliant in it. and she has a very, very tasteful nude scene where you see a glimpse of her pubic hair. and it was a critical visual to help depict her sexual awakening.

what if we had the same general scenario with a male actor of her prestige, but he has a small penis. would he be willing to give a small glimpse of his manhood in the way that a woman can and not suffer judgement?

basically, if it becomes commonplace, we'll know who's hung and who's not. :wink:

the penis at the end of "Boogie Nights" -- again, absolutely central to the story -- was a prosthetic, and i think many male underware models are stuffed as well, as i think MM was in the Calvin Klein ads.
 
LarryMullen's_POPAngel said:
Somewhere, Kevin Bacon is laughing his (naked) ass off.

We saw that movie in the theater, startled my ex gasped, "Oh my god, I just saw Kevin's bacon", really loud, setting off the whole theater. I thought it was hilarious, she crawled into a ball and turned red.
 
Irvine511 said:

basically, if it becomes commonplace, we'll know who's hung and who's not. :wink:

clip2ck8.jpg
 
Absolutely. Although not genitalia, it's certainly an anxiety women have had to live with forever, in many ways almost our sole definition and worth. Kind of brings it down to our level a tad. So my sympathy is tempered.

Besides I'm curious.
 
BonosSaint said:
Absolutely. Although not genitalia, it's certainly an anxiety women have had to live with forever, in many ways almost our sole definition and worth. Kind of brings it down to our level a tad. So my sympathy is tempered.



yes, but one can diet and work out.

one cannot improve on one's penis.
 
Then they'll have to hope they are being judged for their acting skill and not their penis size. If we're going for a more realistic cinema, then an audience will have to grow up enough to know there are variations. Women certainly do.
 
BonosSaint said:
Then they'll have to hope they are being judged for their acting skill and not their penis size. If we're going for a more realistic cinema, then an audience will have to grow up enough to know there are variations. Women certainly do.



fair point.

harvey keitel, for example, seems perfectly fine with this.
 
Irvine511 said:
yes, but one can diet and work out.
Only to a point. Much of what's conventionally seen to make a naked female body highly attractive (large perky boobs, long legs with the "right" curvature, a tight rounded butt) is in fact genetically determined--simply being toned and thin won't give you those things. Of course there are surgical "enhancements" available for breast and butt "problems" but then there are for penises too.
 
yolland said:

Only to a point. Much of what's conventionally seen to make a naked female body highly attractive (large perky boobs, long legs with the "right" curvature, a tight rounded butt) is in fact genetically determined--simply being toned and thin won't give you those things. Of course there are surgical "enhancements" available for breast and butt "problems" but then there are for penises too.



i'm sure there are things that can be done to "enhance" the size of a penis, especially on celluloid, but i can lose 20 lbs, i can't gain 3 inches, and i'd argue that there's a wider variety of "right" female forms -- we've talked about Beyonce and J-Lo -- than there is for a penis where either it's big, or it isn't. (and then there's the whole circumscision issue).

i also don't think you can compare breast implants to penile implants, in terms of success or safety. maybe if there were a sudden demand for men to have tight jeans and bursting packages you might see some advancements, but the way it is right now, breast implant are relatively safe and common and as such are well-researched and funded by doctors who know what they are doing. penile implants are not.
 
Agreed about the difference in safety of implants (though the differential "demand" factor you mentioned may itself play into that) and the circumcised aesthetic. And true, some starlets are quite voluptuous--though as you've noted elsewhere, in practice there seems to be a racial component to who can "get away with" that. But what makes you assume there's not a corresponding variety of admired male forms? Certainly I think straight women appreciate more than one type of male body shape (so long as it's toned, if we're talking celluloid "ideals") and of course that includes more components than just penis length--butt shape, torso shape, shoulders and arms for example.
 
yolland said:
But what makes you assume there's not a corresponding variety of admired male forms? Certainly I think straight women appreciate more than one type of male body shape (so long as it's toned, if we're talking celluloid "ideals") and of course that includes more components than just penis length--butt shape, torso shape, shoulders and arms for example.


i thought we were talking about penises?

as for male forms, i think there are a wide variety of "types" that are appreciated -- one just has to peruse, for example, gay culture to learn all about twinks, daddies, bears, geeks, A&F boys, jocks, etc. -- and i think that's also true for women.

i'd argue that there are a great variety of women wit a great variety of shapes -- from swanlike Gwyneth to voluptuous Catherine Zeta-Jones or Rachel Weisz -- to other women who are attractive, certainly, but not pin-ups, nor do they have to be (Cate Blanchette, Jodie Foster, Meryl Streep) because they are all considered thespians first and foremost. since they are on stage and on camera, there's a basic level of attractiveness, of course, and that's true for men as well -- hello, Daniel Day-Lewis -- but their looks are secondary to their talents.

what we're getting at, i think, and what i think many women justly feel irritated by, is the pin-up tits-n-ass type girl who's on al the magazine covers. what Britney was. what Jessica Alba is. and the reason why we see more of this type of girl is because men are more visual (like why there's more pornography). but these women aren't usually taken seriously as artists. these women are there to mostly provide masturbation material for men.
 
I just want to know how many men who think the full frontal male nudity is "icky" would also say that the full female nudity is icky. Is the icky strictly looking at another guy's penis? I guess the disempowering would involve losing that control, women have had to lose it for years.

Personally I think what is left to the imagination is always the sexiest. After shows like that HBO show (I am going by the description, I am HBOless unfortunately), what is left? I prefer love scenes that are more discreet and nudity that is the same. If not done a certain way it all starts to look like porn and just so mechanical and lacking in a certain humanity. I saw Viggo on GMA this morning and as he explained it, his full frontal nudity was necessary for the story. There is a fight in a bathhouse, and the towel would not stay on during a fight. And Viggo strikes me as the type of guy whose sense of manhood is not at all tied into his size-for whatever that's worth. That is a man.
 
Back
Top Bottom