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Old 04-21-2007, 01:15 AM   #1
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Making money part of Jewish tradition.

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Candidate: Making money part of Jewish tradition
Apr 16, 2007

Making money is part of the Jewish tradition, a U.S. presidential candidate said in a speech to the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism.

"I'm in the private sector and for the first time in my life I'm earning money," a presidential candidate said Monday. "You know that's sort of part of the Jewish tradition."

After being made aware that his remarks were problematic, presidential candidate returned to the podium and told the several hundred activists assembled, "I just want to clarify something because I didn't in any means want to infer or imply anything about Jews and finances and things.

"What I was referring to ladies and gentlemen is the accomplishments of the Jewish religion and the Jewish people. You have been outstanding business people and I compliment you for that and if anybody took what I said wrong, I apologize. I may have mischaracterized it. You are very successful. I applaud you for that."

During the speech, presidential candidate he had purchased "Jewish bonds" -- presumably meaning Israel Bonds -- and said his friend who persuaded him to buy the bonds was also a big supporter of the "Jewish Defense League" -- probably meaning the Anti-Defamation League, not the militant group.

"We are pleased that presidential candidate made time in his schedule -- like many other policy makers -- to address the 2007 Consultation of Conscience," RAC Associate Director Mark Pelavin said in a statement afterward.
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Old 04-21-2007, 01:27 AM   #2
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I had an odd experience in Venice last summer. I noticed that in all the murano glass stores, they were selling little figurines of a Jewish money lender. You know, he looked like Shylock, held a bag of money in his hands, sometimes standing on a gondola. And I was with two friends and we all kind of looked at each other thinking, is this really appropriate? Then we went to the old Jewish ghetto in Venice and to the store next to the Jewish/holocaust museum and they had murano glass dreidels and so on and....Shylock! In all imaginable sizes...tiny Shylock, 6 inch Shylock, etc. So I thought, okay have we been overly conditioned to spot these things or what?
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Old 04-21-2007, 01:30 AM   #3
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or

Are they just rap artist giving the public what it wants?
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Old 04-21-2007, 10:24 AM   #4
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I almost feel kinda sorry for him (this was Tommy Thompson)...after the "Jewish Defense League" mention I don't think I'd have been able to stop giggling nervously, which from what I've read was the prevalent response among the audience by the time he finished. Apparently he also kept emphasizing that he has Jewish friends (who cares?), attempted to name-drop that he's met Benjamin Netanyahu (not exactly likely to appeal to a RAC audience), and repeatedly referred to Winston Churchill as the first leader of Israel. Really just kind of a textbook lesson in how NOT to do it from beginning to end.

anitram, I didn't notice the Shylock figurines when I visited the ghetto, but I'm not surprised they'd sell them. That figure/archetype is after all a major part of European Jewish history, both literally (it was often the only profession Jews were allowed to engage in, besides certain types of peddling) and figuratively (it was regarded as sinister and despicable work--"usury"--and thus enhanced the stigma already attached to being a Jew). And Shakespeare's use of it, which was famously ambiguous in many ways, has been much explored and played around with--for example, Einhorn's wonderful absurdist play Shylock--by Jewish authors and scholars, too. So I'm not particularly surprised the museum store there would sell the figurines...they're an inherently uncomfortable symbol in many ways, yes, but there are numerous interpretations you could attach to them too; I don't think it's a black-and-white question of either you'd want one because you're anti-Semitic and see the figurine as "telling," or else you're just appalled by it and purchasing it only as a shocking token of prejudice.
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Old 04-21-2007, 10:37 AM   #5
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but they killed our Lord
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Old 04-21-2007, 11:25 AM   #6
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His website proudly proclaims that he's "a reliable conservative." I'll have to agree.
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Old 04-21-2007, 01:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
His website proudly proclaims that he's "a reliable conservative." I'll have to agree.
You equate conservativism with anti-semitism?
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Old 04-21-2007, 01:15 PM   #8
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Originally posted by AEON


You equate conservativism with anti-semitism?
No, not a by a long shot.

But I do notice that conservatives tend to stick their feet in their mouths slightly more often that their liberal breathren do.
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Old 04-21-2007, 01:48 PM   #9
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Originally posted by AEON


You equate conservativism with anti-semitism?
their is a lot of bigotry towards minorities (including Jews) with many in the GOP

anti - Jewish is anti-Semitic


there is a reason that Jewish voters in America are one of the largest voting blocks that choose Democrats over Republicans
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Old 04-21-2007, 02:28 PM   #10
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Aeon,

Who is for this cross in San Diedo

and who is against it?



Quote:
Opponents to San Diego cross subpoena congressmen

By: Associated Press -

WASHINGTON -- Opponents of a 29-foot-tall cross that stands on public parkland in San Diego have subpoenaed three local members of Congress who supported federal legislation designed to shield the monument from legal challenges.

The subpoenas were served on GOP Reps. Darrell Issa, Brian Bilbray and Duncan Hunter last month in connection with a lawsuit over the cross filed by the Jewish War Veterans and individual Jewish plaintiffs. Issa and Hunter were subpoenaed for documents. Bilbray was subpoenaed for testimony.

The lawsuit against the Defense Department and the city of San Diego contends that the cross, dedicated in 1954 in honor of Korean War soldiers, excludes veterans who are not Christian.

The plaintiffs, sued last August shortly after President Bush signed the legislation transferring the cross and a war memorial of which it is a part to the federal government.

The subpoenas were made public this week in the Congressional Record. They seek the lawmakers' communications with the executive branch and public interest groups about the cross, and other documents.

The House counsel's office is reviewing the subpoenas and negotiating with the plaintiffs' attorneys, officials said.

Issa's spokesman, Frederick Hill, called the subpoena a "nuisance subpoena" and said that Issa "has no intention of voluntarily assisting this attack on freedom of religion."

"The big point I'd want to make is this lawsuit is part of a meritless assault on a religious symbol," said Hill.

"The cross is on federal property, it violates the church-state separation issue, and therefore it's unconstitutional," Bob Zweiman, an official with the Jewish War Veterans group, said through a spokeswoman.
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Old 04-21-2007, 06:43 PM   #11
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Isn't making money a way of life for any human who walks this earth, not having anything to do with religious denomination? We need money to survive. Being close to many in the Jewish faith I do believe they do want to make money, and for varying reasons and they take pride in doing so.

I also live in San Diego, near what's become the controversial cross. The controversy surrounding this monument has grown disproportionately the last few years, thanks to Bush's bill. The monument was erected in the mid 1950's and times have definitely changed since then. I don't understand why some compromise can't be met to end the fighting over the cross and move on to other albeit more important issues.
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Old 04-22-2007, 12:42 AM   #12
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I don't think that the San Diego case makes for much of an example of anti-Semitism--I can understand why a group of Jewish veterans would find a national war memorial in the form of a cross objectionable, and for legal purposes that becomes a separation-of-church-and-state argument, but that doesn't make it anti-Semitic, and so far as I know even they aren't arguing that. My understanding is that it wasn't even designated a war memorial until the 1990s, and even then more as an excuse for keeping it there (there was an unrelated, earlier lawsuit involving it being a religious monument on public land more generally) than anything else. The veterans' group only got involved when Bush transferred ownership of the patch of land it stands on to the federal government (again in an attempt to protect it from lawsuits), so far as I know. I gather even the veteran's group is split over whether this is a good idea--apparently the local chapter head complained when the national leadership decided to get involved, arguing that most San Diegoans simply perceived the monument as a historic local landmark and the lawsuit was in fact likely to stir up anti-Semitism.
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Old 04-22-2007, 02:33 AM   #13
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It's the old stereotype perpetuated by the fact that back in the Middle Ages etc Christians were forbidden to work in money lending and similar professions, soa signifiecant number of the Jewish population were put into that role.
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Old 04-22-2007, 03:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
but they killed our Lord
No we didn't,... Elvis died of a drug overdose....we had nothing to do with it.

ROFLMAO!
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