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Old 05-28-2004, 10:18 AM   #1
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Make your case to the undecided

Okay Bush and Kerry and Nader supporters, here's your chance. Tell us why you support your candidate, why you are against the other guy, and why your choice would be the best thing for America. Go on, we're listening!
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Old 05-28-2004, 10:58 AM   #2
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I do not exactly consider Kerry a "knight in shining armor". He's an imperfect candidate if I ever saw one. He's a pretty ordinary "career politician" with all of the faults of a career politico. I'm voting for him because I think his ideas are more sophisticated and intelligent than Bush's are. Bush wants to rely more on military power to deal with the terrorist problem. Kerry wants to use economic policies, like moving to free us from dependence on foreign oil and working with our allies, *and* military power. Quite frankly I'm confused about alot of issues in the wake of 9/11, security issues in particular; I keep wondering if we didn't commit some massive, naive screw-up because we mistakenly thought we wouldn't get attacked the way we did. So it's changed the way I look at foreign policy, and I think some foreign policy is necessarily going to be in the "trial-balloon" phase, some of it working and quite possibly some of it not, no matter who's in the White House. It's not enough to change my "usually-Democratic" voting pattern, but it's making me re-think a bunch of stuff. I hope this makes sense. I'm still waiting for my caffeine fix to kick in.
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Old 05-28-2004, 05:26 PM   #3
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Thanks Verte. I thought more people would have jumped on this
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Old 05-28-2004, 05:43 PM   #4
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Bush has said that he feels that God works through him. The separation of church and state is too important to throw out the window, along with the Geneva Convention and all of the checks and balances that make our nation work. Bush does what he pleases, and I think that's more frightening than any ambiguous terror alert. Kerry ia brave, intelligent, reasonable man who has worked in public service all his life. He's willing to change his mind if the situation warrants it, something I consider a positive attribute, not a negative one. I don't want any more war, I want peace and prosperity. Bush hasn't shown me either.
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Old 05-28-2004, 05:48 PM   #5
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But has Kerry ever said he'd stop the war?
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Old 05-28-2004, 05:50 PM   #6
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Great post najeena. I won't argue with it. The problem with the present people in the White House is that they haven't changed their minds in 40 years. That's too long to hold on to any one particular set of beliefs. Kerry is intelligent; Bush is not. Bush and Co. threw the baby out with the bathwater when they threw out the Geneva Conventions. This stuff is *crucial*.
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Old 05-28-2004, 06:16 PM   #7
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Why I will vote for Kerry:

Bush and the GOP leadership represent full and unabashed reactionary conservatism. I will not paint all GOP members with the same brush; there are many fine GOP politicians that I do not mind, such as Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME), Sen. Lincoln Chafee (R-RI), and even Sen. John McCain (R-AZ). I particularly appreciate McCain's sincerity of beliefs over politics, which he has demonstrated over his years in office, even though I disagree with his decision to campaign for the Bush Administration. I do not believe that Bush deserves his help, after he and his reactionary conservative allies worked very hard to smear the more moderate McCain in the 2000 GOP primary.

But I digress. For those reasonable, fiscal conservative "Barry Goldwater" Republicans, Bush is not your candidate. His tax cut plans were completely lacking in any common sense; he created them with the projection that the record prosperity and surplus during the Clinton Administration would continue another decade, which not even the most optimistic economist agreed with. And, yes, an unforseen terrorist attack came in 2001, but, terrorist attack or not, his projection was made out of a complete disregard for any sound economic policy.

Ultimately, my choice for Kerry is about "reading between the lines." A vote for Bush is a vote for reactionary Christian extremism. This man has repeatedly forsaken the facts, in favor of a "faith-based" approach to the presidency. Bush has proven, too, that he will lie or string us along on circumstantial evidence to get his agenda through. Did anyone ever doubt that Bush II would eventually take out Saddam Hussein to finish his father's embarrassment the minute he was elected? 9/11 just turned out to be neoconservatism's greatest boon since the Cold War, allowing them to push through any amount of offensive legislation they want, while deriding any critics as "terrorist sympathizers" or "traitors" that walk in their path. Ask FOX News what they think of any liberal, and ask the Bush Administration which news network they interview on the most.

A vote for Kerry is a vote to end this executive tyranny, and to close a chapter on a generation of extremist Republicans that have dogged down the party since the Reagan Administration. A vote for Kerry is a vote against the worst elements of the United States.

Melon
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Old 05-28-2004, 06:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
But has Kerry ever said he'd stop the war?
Kerry's plan has been to increase international involvement in Iraq. That doesn't sound so different from what Bush has been pushing recently, but that's only because Bush has finally realized that we can't do this (relatively) alone.

Are any politicians seriously suggesting that we pull out completely? It's sort of a "you made your bed and now you have to lie in it" sort of thing, anyway.
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Old 05-28-2004, 07:09 PM   #9
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Now that we're in Iraq, we have to clean up our mess. We just can't pull out with all of that instability and chaos going on. We need help from the allies, something Bush wouldn't admit when we first went over. TG's link describes the situation perfectly. That's the only way to stop the war.
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Old 05-28-2004, 07:56 PM   #10
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where are all the nader supporters? I heard he's a shoe in
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Old 05-28-2004, 09:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Bush and Co. threw the baby out with the bathwater when they threw out the Geneva Conventions. This stuff is *crucial*.
It wasn't Bush and Co. who did that, it was a few backwater hicks who were cruel enough to abuse prisoners and stupid enough to leave photographic evidence. They were not on orders from Bush, Rumsfeld, or anyone else as far as I know. I don't see how that's Bush's fault. He's no innocent baby, but he's not guilty of that.
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Old 05-28-2004, 09:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wild Angel


It wasn't Bush and Co. who did that, it was a few backwater hicks who were cruel enough to abuse prisoners and stupid enough to leave photographic evidence. They were not on orders from Bush, Rumsfeld, or anyone else as far as I know. I don't see how that's Bush's fault. He's no innocent baby, but he's not guilty of that.
Bush himself most likely didn't order it, true. But.....who exactly *did* order it is anyone's guess, and that's what makes it so awful, IMO. The whole thing is too vague for anyone outside of the government to know. It's the suspicion itself. It kills any illusion of innocence. There's only a grey area between guilt or innocence. It's always innocent until proven guilty but this situation stinks. Some big shots screwed up big time. And there's supposed to be a sign in the Oval Office saying "the buck stops here". Perhaps it's only symbolic but it's powerful enough to exist in the public psyche--and my own personal one.
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Old 05-28-2004, 09:43 PM   #13
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It does make you wonder how far up it went, especially when the White House counsel called the Geneva protections "quaint."
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Old 05-28-2004, 09:49 PM   #14
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It does make you wonder how far up it went, especially when the White House counsel called the Geneva protections "quaint."
Absolutely. Some guilt is indeed clinging to some people who are too damn close for comfort. I really want to know who did this. The whole mess is very upsetting and demoralizing. Maybe I am too emotional about this. The thing is, can you be too emotional about torture and abusive behavior? We're not supposed to be in the torture and abuse department. We claimed we were going to Iraq to stop this, did we not?
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Old 05-28-2004, 10:55 PM   #15
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Vote for Bush, I wan't the AUS/US FTA!
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