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Old 01-23-2003, 07:14 PM   #16
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Ok, elfyx, sorry for that offensive statement of mine. Didnīt want to bash you- your last explanation of your thoughts seems a little deeper, but anyway, in my very humble opinion you miss the point.

Anyway, to quote you:

"Yes, I agree. But that doesn't negate the fact that its power comes from treaties and conventions. Once a treaty, convention, resolution, or other diplomatic document is agreed upon and signed, it is accepted that ratifiying members uphold the terms agreed therein. In order to do this, state laws are usually changed or enacted to agree with the new treaty. If a member state decides to not uphold the agreement, or pulls out of a treaty, depending on the political circumstances involved, measures are put into place to force compliance. Think sanctions, or even war. We are doing these very things with IRAQ and N. Korea right now, under *UN Resolutions*"

The treaties and conventions are created with the member states! I strongly disagree with your view that the U.N. is a kind of world power elite. Like I said, the U.N. is an instrument in the hands of member states, just like the IMF (partly) is an instrument in the hands of the worlds strongest financers/ ministers.

You can find the world power elite somewhere else: its a loose mix of a few very rich actors, businessmen, investors and bankers on the global scene, who act with politicians (jumpin jacks) to fulfil their (mostly "economic" - no, financial) goals. Now, the politicians themselves use military, police and journalists (second row jumpin jacks).

The funny thing is that this global power elite is very flexible. I donīt think you will find any document, or actual "group" who meets anually and decides how the world should be ruled... this happens under very different circumstances. A phone call there, some millions into the hand of (insert fav here), loose, flexible, you know. Iīm thinking of ppl like... ah, just take a look at Forbes.

Flexibility is very important, because we live in a fast paced world. Take a look at the former italian "Propaganda due" to get a clue of how a system like that works (without me saying that the world power elite is organized in a lodge, that would be an unusual conspiracy theory).

"Propaganda Due, or P2, is a secret masonic lodge that Licio Gelli joined in 1966, later to become its Venerable Master. P2 is neo-fascist, but in Italy during the 1970s, this did not preclude conspiracies with anarchists, leftists, terrorists, and the CIA. Gelli holds dual Italian-Argentine citizenship, and was connected with Italian police and intelligence agencies, as well as with the Mafia, financiers, and the Vatican. By March 1981, his string was running out. Police raided Gelli's villa in Tuscany and photographed a list of nearly a thousand "members" of P2. Many important Italians were on it -- top businessmen, bankers, 30 generals, 38 members of parliament, 4 cabinet ministers, former prime ministers, intelligence chiefs, newspaper editors, TV executives, 19 judges, and 58 university professors."

Just an example for your vision of global power elite. Now, lets go to take a look at the real power elite.

As each country tried to make its own financial system as attractive as possible to foreign capital, the range of financial instruments mushroomed. Today there are some two hundred different types of financial instruments, some of which have only the most remote and indirect relationship to the real economy.

While some of these instruments were created by banks and other financial agencies, or even by corporations or individual billionaires, the bulk of the paper used in the financial system has been supplied by the states themselves in the diverse forms of debt they recognize.

Public debt of the rich countries has become the main instrument for the domination of financial capital over productive capital.

Only two years ago, the volume of international money transactions devoted to financial operations was fifty times greater than the volume of money devoted to the circulation of goods. Today, the ratio is eighty to one.

At the same time, the worldwide erosion of social welfare benefits, in countries where they exist, is a particularly serious aspect of this trend. The drive towards "profitability" for social welfare, pensions, health care and, in many countries, education, is having disastrous consequences for the poorest layers of the population.

Who is circulating all that money? The U.N.? Come on. The regular budget of the U.N., not including peace keeping missions, is $ 1,3 billion per year. World military expenditures, f.e. – some $800 billion a year – would pay for the entire UN system for more than 65 years.

The U.N. is a fulfilling body, its not a government. The treaties and conventions are created in the will of certain member states, depending on the issue. And the U.N. Secretary, highly respected Kofi Annan, doesnīt have power over all the U.N. organizations. Many of them are specialized agencies with their own board of directors. The U.N.s main goal is not to pass resolutions on Iraq or whoever. This is possibly one of the duties of the security council, but the United Nations means much more. The only state worldwide which is not part of the U.N., is the Vatican. The U.N. got 191 members.

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