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Old 09-18-2004, 10:39 PM   #1
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looking for an explanation, please

OK, so I'm really rather puzzled that many Bush supporters view the fact that most of the world supports Kerry as a negative. Could someone illuminate me? I'm not looking for rage and flaming, I'd just like to know why people think that.
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Old 09-18-2004, 10:45 PM   #2
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You know that when you have support from countries like France, Iran and North Korea you may not be securing the US "national interest" in quite the right way.

Doing the right thing, even when it is unpopular is better than standing by and letting innocents die.

It is better to be loathed and powerful than loved and weak. The US must accept its position as the sole superpower and use that force for good, to liberate the world from tyranny and ensure the protection of liberty. Anything else would be frivilous pretending that costs lives. Bush does not do this, but he is a hell of a lot closer to that than Kerry is, he should be congratulated for pursuing a foreign policy that fights for freedom.
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Old 09-18-2004, 10:45 PM   #3
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Perhaps because they don't think anyone else knows anything. Or maybe that we in the US don't want people in other countries telling us what to do! Only WE are allowed to do that, don't you know?
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Old 09-18-2004, 11:39 PM   #4
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id take loved and weak any day.

oh hang on....my country is!

:yippee!:
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Old 09-19-2004, 01:11 AM   #5
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It is better to be loathed and powerful

Something Saddam might have said.
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Old 09-19-2004, 01:15 AM   #6
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Perhaps the language was a little harsh, what I am getting at is that sometimes doing the right thing doesn't always make you popular and loved but you have to do it anyway. I am not getting into an "by all means at your disposal" Pax Americana enforced upon the world fascist nightmare. Pissing off a lot of these countries tells me that Bush is exactly where he should be in looking out for America's national interest.
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Old 09-19-2004, 01:45 AM   #7
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It tells me that he isn't really looking at the big picture at all.
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Old 09-19-2004, 01:51 AM   #8
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
It tells me that he isn't really looking at the big picture at all.
You know my mom used to tell me if everyone is telling you what you are doing is wrong, it might be time for some reevaluation. That was always pretty good advice. To bad Dubya's mom was a slacker (or maybe he just doesn't listen).
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Old 09-19-2004, 01:52 AM   #9
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Pissing off a lot of these countries tells me that Bush is exactly where he should be in looking out for America's national interest.
And pissing off the UN tells me that Bush isnt looking after the global interests.
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Old 09-19-2004, 02:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


You know my mom used to tell me if everyone is telling you what you are doing is wrong, it might be time for some reevaluation. That was always pretty good advice. To bad Dubya's mom was a slacker (or maybe he just doesn't listen).
Your mum really needs to be in the white house indra.
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Old 09-19-2004, 02:28 AM   #11
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I would say pissing off the UN by taking affirmative action against the despotic rulers of these countries is exactly the right thing to do.
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Old 09-19-2004, 03:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I would say pissing off the UN by taking affirmative action against the despotic rulers of these countries is exactly the right thing to do.

I would say that blind patriotism makes me wanna gag.


Sorry, it's 6:52 am and I've only had 3 hours of sleep. Self censoring mode is not yet fully activated.
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Old 09-19-2004, 03:54 AM   #13
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actually you are aussie are you not?
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Old 09-19-2004, 04:20 AM   #14
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Yes I am, I am being overly simplistic only because I have consumed about half a bottle of vodka while waiting for an ebay auction to go down.

The US is not perfect, I think that cuddling up to criminal regimes and turning a blind eye to human rights abuse by those regimes is wrong and must be stopped. Bush is pursuing a foreign policy based on a variety of objectives, some of these objectives overlap with mine and I will support them for that reason.

I do not support American interference in the sovereignty of other nations by ways of coup d'etat and the like. I think that the removal of funding to operations that utilize forms of birth control is practically murder and I really hate the blood money given to Arab regimes so that they play nice. But I support the war on terrorism because the threat from Islamofascism is real, they are targeting Muslim countries now in the hopes that they can gain some legitimacy on the world stage as sovereign entities but from there where will they go. It represents a great threat to the world and it must be stopped, GWB is one of the few leaders that is stepping up to the plate and taking the fight to the terrorists, now it isn't that simple, Iraq is a complicated situation and we are not really fighting Al Qaeda there but in the long term it can cripple the Islamist cause. Essentially I will support any foreign policy that will introduce liberty and democracy to fix the world - global liberation is the name of the game.

And here is the problem of the UN. The organization is dedicated to peace at any price. It will stand by and convene meetings to debate frivilous technicalities while people die at the hands of despots. It reserves its hatred for Jews, it is a purely anti-Israeli entity that will spend disproportionate ammounts of time condemning the victims of terror and legitimizing the terrorists (Arafat anyone?) than it does on the real problems.

It contains kleptocracies and authoritarian regimes true to 1984, these regimes are given free reign of the place buying off beurocrats to fufil their dirty deeds. The oil for food scam demonstrates this quite nicely. The running of sex slaves by UN peacekeepers being hushed up after the investigations and the perpetual deadlock that is found whenever one wants to chase down one of these gangster states that murders its own. The UN had a chance for relevance in the 1990's it blew it on numerous occasions - I will never respect an organization that holds the status quo as the ideal situation.

I do not especially like GWB, I think that his domestic policy has many flaws, his religious beliefs entering his policy decisions also make me cringe but to me what matters is how the threat from Islamism is treated. For 8 years it was dealt with as a cops and robbers type of game. In return 9.11 occured, nobodys fault except those bastards that did it but it was a wakeup call (a small one at that). Unless the those that seek to annihilate the infidels are eliminated we will get another wakeup call, only this one will be worse - possible biological or atomic - and it must be prevented by all means possible. Only way to do this is to eliminate the support that Islamists recieve - this is done by democratizing and liberalizing the Muslim world. It is a big ask but it is the only solution, short of exterminating every single "potential Islamist" (something I am NOT for, this would be murdering 1.2 billion people because of the threat of a few million, it would remove the threat but it sure as hell wouldn't be worth it - ever!).

So yes I support GWB, his foreign policy holds true to that of liberventionism and ideals of the classical liberals. Freedom can reign supreme and guarantee a world where the threat of annihilation does not exist. If the democrats ran a candidate who advocated toppling of the Ayatollahs and attempting a detente with North Korea followed by a massive ammount of spending to give poor families alternatives to Islamic Madrassas then I would support that - but John Kerry is not that candidate. He is the guy who wants to turn the clock back to the 1990's, make believe that terrorism isn't a big deal and that withdrawing from Iraq will show the world how peaceful and good the US is. That policy will cost lives in terms of blowback and could be the monumental fuckup that signals the demise of western civilization. Iraq can be the staging post for a great victory, it will be bloody and it will take time but in the final analysis it will be worth it. Nobody can sit back and not interfer and expect problems to go away, I fear that to many here are content to say that their lives are great therefor it is alright if Arabs don't have any freedom, the inherent racism there staggers me. Freedom must become a universal human right, not just a luxury for the rich, failure to ensure this will mean the world will never see peace.

/End statement.
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Old 09-19-2004, 03:02 PM   #15
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so lemme get this right...you support us taking away the right of people in other countries to live the way they want to live to protect liberty?

Interesting

I might be missing your point though, I just got off work and drank 2 bottles of beer...heh
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