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Old 10-07-2005, 08:15 PM   #16
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Originally posted by melon


Substitute "academy" for "church" and we'll be on the same page.

Melon
Based on many of your posts here, it seems you haven't been to one in a while (I may be wrong). As an elder who serves in many capacities, and assuming positive intent, I'd say your suggestion is wrong.
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:26 PM   #17
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Based on many of your posts here, it seems you haven't been to one in a while (I may be wrong). As an elder who serves in many capacities, and assuming positive intent, I'd say your suggestion is wrong.
I think a good test of this would be if all congregants plain stopped giving money to the Church. Then let's see how "benevolent" they are.

I remember in my old church where the priest was so far right-wing that most people just plain stopped attending. And so what did he do from there? I heard then he started bitching at the few congregants there for more money with good old fashioned threats of hellfire if they didn't. And the only times I ever even heard a peep from the cardinal of the archdiocese was when he was begging for money on TV.

There's days where I wish I could like conventional religion, but it's really nothing more than an organized heterosexual nationalist organization. You know "white nationalists," right? The ones who extol the virtues of being white, lament the loss of "white culture," and then blame all the non-whites for all the problems in society using preposterous, illogical reasoning? That's what I see church as, substituting the racism for homophobia. As long as you're straight, married, and have your 2.3 children, you'll never see a reason to question the status quo. I can't imagine Jesus ever wanting an organization like that, so you'll see why I take offense to the term "agnostic." I'm not questioning the existence of God, and I don't even need to question the vast majority of His believers. No, I already know they're wrong.

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Old 10-07-2005, 08:56 PM   #18
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Here I thought this had to do w/ a sexual Disneyland or something

I wonder if there's a single thread I could make around here that wouldn't go back somehow to the same old "discussions"

Well I think it sounds like an interesting place and if it could actually educate people how to be responsible about sex, that could be good.

Also if there will be cute British males there who would be the sexual equilvalents of Mickey Mouse and Goofy, that wouldn't be bad either
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:57 PM   #19
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

Also if there will be cute British males there who would be the sexual equilvalents of Mickey Mouse and Goofy, that wouldn't be bad either
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Old 10-07-2005, 09:02 PM   #20
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I think a good test of this would be if all congregants plain stopped giving money to the Church. Then let's see how "benevolent" they are.
I understand where you´re coming from. The Catholic church in Austria goes as far as taking a (small) percentage of the earnings of all Austrian Catholics, in order to pay for Priests, renovate chruches, and maybe hand over some of the money to the Vatican. This is a law that was introduced by Hitler (to reimburse the Church for the land he "stole" from them, since everything had to be "national". The Church accepted. After the war, they got their land back, but kept the payments up. Not bad, hmmm?).

Yeah, figure that out, the Austrian Cath. Church still follows a rule of Hitler! Nice, huh? When you don´t pay, you will get problems sooner or later, ok, I have ignored them for the last four years, but they always write me letters, and one day they will make a serious appraoch, I guess Yep, you can get excommunicated for it. And if you don´t pay, the Church may take you to the court.

However, one good thing is that you can force them to give half of the money to the Caritas (which is also an org. by the Church, just to explain to you, Melon, that there are many great religious organizations).

I also understand where you´re coming from when you look at the scandals ie. of the banker Sindona in Italy; apparently the money was bunkered along with some mafia profits, coming from drugs, prostitiution, smuggling etc.

The Vatican has been in so many scandals over that, it is a shame. It is also a shame when members of the congregation still feel they have to pay, because if not, the Priest and/ or community will look at them badly.



Still, melon, to compare the two things is oranges and apples. I hope at some point you will find the inner strength to admit that. The Catholic church is so multi-faceted, you can´t sweep over with generalizations.

When you speak about the "vast majority of believers", do you include the vast majority in third world countries? They aren´t white.

You think they are wrong when they talk about values of family? You come here to compare racism to homophobia very easily. But hunderds of thousands of people died because of racism. The gay issue is not an issue like this, gays were not murdered systematically. Yes, there is the Christopher Street day, but please don´t tell me you are one of the homosexuals who are so sound up in their cause that they think they can equal homophobia to concentration camps.

The church has family values. You can belittle them by speaking about the average 1.3 baby marriage or anything, which is fine. I am not a conservative and I don´t have anything against your view, since I´ll probably never get married anyway. But if you think a little logical, you will agree that a gay relationship is not very family friendly. Why? Because 2 men can´t get a child. K, they can adopt (when allowed). Anyway. Thjis is not the family model the Church is talking about. Everyone shall have his own free will and do what he/ she wants, but you know, I still think the best for a child is to have a mother and a father.
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Old 10-07-2005, 09:06 PM   #21
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I wonder if there's a single thread I could make around here that wouldn't go back somehow to the same old "discussions"
Sorry.

Thats how discussions run on FYM. Not many of us make threads that aren´t derailed at some point, I think. Except if its forbidden, like at those Memorial threads.
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Old 10-07-2005, 09:07 PM   #22
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um, OK
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Old 10-07-2005, 09:15 PM   #23
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Sorry.

Thats how discussions run on FYM. Not many of us make threads that aren´t derailed at some point, I think. Except if its forbidden, like at those Memorial threads.
I disagree, besides Mrs S has been around long enough to realise exactly how this place does run. I've watched as she tried to bring different topics or a change of pace to this place, but the same arguments keep coming back, or people treat with 'last day of school syndrome' where it's not taken seriously anyway. So either way, it derails.

There's a small handful of people here who I reckon keep this place from being a mill of the same formulaic debates over and over again. I hope none of them stop, despite it all.
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Old 10-07-2005, 09:17 PM   #24
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thanks Angela

I need a break from this place
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Old 10-07-2005, 09:18 PM   #25
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Ok Angela, so is melon allowed to reply here or shall we create a spin off thread?
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Old 10-07-2005, 11:39 PM   #26
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Well I think it sounds like an interesting place and if it could actually educate people how to be responsible about sex, that could be good.

Also if there will be cute British males there who would be the sexual equilvalents of Mickey Mouse and Goofy, that wouldn't be bad either
Do you really see this as an educational endeavor, or is it an attempt at respectful titillation?

Or should it simply be an Austin Power's pad?
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Old 10-08-2005, 12:58 AM   #27
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Do you really see this as an educational endeavor, or is it an attempt at respectful titillation?

Or should it simply be an Austin Power's pad?

how could we make that judgement yet when the place hasn't been built?

Is all sex education simply "respectful titillation"?
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Old 10-08-2005, 07:40 AM   #28
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Of course it is. Otherwise, no one would pay any attention.

You find all the stuff I never see, Mrs. S. Thanks.
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Old 10-08-2005, 12:45 PM   #29
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
You think they are wrong when they talk about values of family? You come here to compare racism to homophobia very easily. But hunderds of thousands of people died because of racism. The gay issue is not an issue like this, gays were not murdered systematically. Yes, there is the Christopher Street day, but please don´t tell me you are one of the homosexuals who are so sound up in their cause that they think they can equal homophobia to concentration camps.
Well...

1) Homosexuals were murdered in concentration camps, so there goes that argument out the window. In Germany, while great strides were made to make up for anti-Semitism, Hitler's laws against homosexuals and homosexuality weren't repealed until the late 1980s. That made reparations claims virtually impossible for the homosexual survivors of concentration camps.

2) The Catholic Church itself is responsible for murdering homosexuals during the Inquistion. Particularly cruel and painful methods of torture and dismemberment were reserved for them. So where was that "Jubilee 2000" apology? That's right. It never came.

Quote:
The church has family values. You can belittle them by speaking about the average 1.3 baby marriage or anything, which is fine. I am not a conservative and I don´t have anything against your view, since I´ll probably never get married anyway. But if you think a little logical, you will agree that a gay relationship is not very family friendly. Why? Because 2 men can´t get a child. K, they can adopt (when allowed). Anyway. Thjis is not the family model the Church is talking about. Everyone shall have his own free will and do what he/ she wants, but you know, I still think the best for a child is to have a mother and a father.
Well, tell your wayward heteros to stop shitting out babies like a litter of kittens and then abandoning them on the curb the minute things don't look so rosy. There's millions of abandoned children worldwide whose "mother and father" threw them out with the trash. And what about when one parent or the other dies? The Catholic Church can talk in lofty, romanticist ideals all the hell they want. The real world is not so neat and clean. And until the Catholic Church starts living in the real world and stop defaming the reputation and lives of homosexuals worldwide with patently untrue stereotypes, I will never forgive those deviant child molesters in ornate dresses. Ever.

Melon
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Old 10-08-2005, 12:49 PM   #30
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Ok Angela, so is melon allowed to reply here or shall we create a spin off thread?
If people want to create a spin-off thread, fine. Be my guest. But I also don't see lots of talk about a sexual theme park here, which people are certainly free to do. Is there really that much to talk about?

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