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Old 11-23-2003, 10:59 AM   #76
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Still waiting for the list of weapons that Rumsfeld supplied Iraq with since he was photographed with him it clearly shows he delivered weapons.


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Old 11-23-2003, 05:43 PM   #77
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Nice post Dread.

Iraq was allowed to sell Billions of dollars worth of oil for humanitarian supplies every year. Something most countries in Africa can only dream of doing. The dollar amount that Iraq sold or could sell every year to buy humanitarian supplies was far more than what was required to take care of the basic needs of a population of 24 million.

It was Saddam's attempts to get rid of sanctions that created stories of suffering that often did not exist such as the baby coffins that would be paraded through Baghdad every week. It was later discovered that this was all a sham. No problem though, Saddam could easily create suffering for people in the Shia south in order to get pics to sell the idea of the "murderous sanctions".

What I find funny is that the very people who opposed sanctions were for sanctions prior to the first Gulf War. The chant on the streets in 1990/1991 was "Sanctions, Not War".

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Old 11-23-2003, 06:27 PM   #78
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[Q]If you want to support war despite that then do so, but at least acknowledge what you're supporting. Acknowledge that in supporting an attack on Iraq you're saying you support 500,000 innocent people being injured, you're supporting 900,000 people beceoming refugees, you're supporting 3million people having too little food to survive. [/Q]

As I was searching for my post months ago I ran accross this dire prediction about the rammifications of the war. These were the UN figures that were posted.

Any comments as to the accuracy of the figures now?
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Old 11-23-2003, 07:06 PM   #79
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Of course there are no itemized lists but here are a couple of sources.
1 Honeywell (R, K)
2 Spectra Physics (K)
3 Semetex (R)
4 TI Coating (A, K)
5 Unisys (A, K)
6 Sperry Corp. (R, K)
7 Tektronix (R, A)
8 Rockwell (K)
9 Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)
10 Finnigan-MAT-US (A)
11 Hewlett-Packard (A, R, K)
12 Dupont (A)
13 Eastman Kodak (R)
14 American Type Culture Collection (B)
15 Alcolac International (C)
16 Consarc (A)
17 Carl Zeiss - U.S (K)
18 Cerberus (LTD) (A)
19 Electronic Associates (R)
20 International Computer Systems (A, R, K)
21 Bechtel (K)
22 EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. (R)
23 Canberra Industries Inc. (A)
24 Axel Electronics Inc. (A)
Zusätzlich zu diesen 24 Firmen mit Stammsitz USA werden in dem irakischen Rüstungsbericht knapp 50 Tochterfirmen ausländischer Unternehmen aufgeführt, die ihre Rüstungskooperation mit dem Irak von den USA aus betrieben. Außerdem werden die Washingtoner Ministerien für Verteidigung, Energie, Handel und Landwirtschaft sowie die Atomwaffenlaboratorien Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos und Sandia als Zulieferer für Iraks Rüstungsprogramme für A-, B- und C-Waffen sowie für Raketen benannt.
(Anu's translation) of the above:
"In addition to these 24 companies home-based in the USA are 50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises which conducted their arms business with Iraq from within the US. Also designated as suppliers for Iraq's arms programs (A, B, C & R) are the US Ministries of Defense, Energy, Trade and Agriculture as well as the Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories."


Germany and the other non-permanent members of the UN Security Council received only a truncated version of the weapons dossier. Data concerning foreign suppliers of Iraq are missing.

Geneva: The 10 non-permanent members of the UN Security Council--to which Germany will belong starting in January--have been withheld substantial parts of the Iraqi arms report. All information about the supplies from--and the support of--foreign companies, research labs and governments from the mid-1970's on, related to Iraqi arms programs, have been deleted. The 5 permanent Council members, the USA, Russia, China, France and Great Britain, are aware of this censorship. According to the German Press Agency DPA, it has reduced the 12,00 page report to only 3000 pages.

From information gathered from UN diplomats of 2 of these 5 countries taz learned that the censorship was agreed on primarily upon the urging of the United States. Among the 5 constant members of the Security Council it was the USA that stood out by giving the strongest support to Saddam Hussain's regime by arming it with the means of mass destruction.

The report gives us a complete overview of these supplies for the first time. In particular it names the 24 US companies and when and to whom in Iraq the supplies were delivered. And it makes clear how strongly the Reagan and the first Bush administrations supported the arming of Iraq, from 1980 up to the Gulf conflict of 1990/91. Substantial construction units for the Iraqi nuclear weapon and rocket programs were supplied with permission of the government in Washington. The poison Anthrax for the arming of Iraq with biological weapons stemmed from US laboratories. Iraqi military and armament experts were trained in the US and there received know-how having to do with their domestic arms programs.

According to the estimation of Susan Wright, a US arms-control expert from the University of Michigan, publication of this information would be "especially embarassing for the USA." It would "remind people in the USA of a very dark chapter, which the Bush administration would prefer to forget about." Whether the US had already struck out this information before it made copies for the other 4 permanent Council members continues to be unclear.

Author: Andreas Zumach
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Old 11-23-2003, 07:13 PM   #80
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It's worth noting to that these figures would be easier to establish if the Pentagon and Tommy Franks "did bodycounts"

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Old 11-23-2003, 09:17 PM   #81
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Can you specifically name a weapon system that the USA supplied to Iraq during the 1980s. For example, the USA has supplied Saudi Arabia with every generation of US tanks from World War II to the present, from the M-48 Tank to the current M1A2 Tank( although this is minus the special armor that covers the front of the tank)

Yes there are dozens of multinational corporations that have supplied PARTS, COMPUTERS, and other SUPPLIES. Yes, Biological cultures from US labs did end up in Iraq as well as DOZENS of other countries. But the US labs did not weaponize the Anthrax and send it to Iraq. These items have DUEL uses and were not sent to support Iraq's war effort to defeat Iran.

Biological weapons have not been widely used on the battlefield and many studies have shown that for battlefield purposes that their effectivness is questionable. Anthrax's best use is as a terror weapon against a defenseless, stationary, unsuspecting, civilian population. It is not surprising that despite developing Anthrax into weaponized form, Iraq never used it against Iran on the battlefield, obviously because of the questionable usefullness in those conditions.

So please, I'd be interested if you could find a single combat weapon system the USA sold to Iraq in the 1980s?

The USA did sale combat weapon systems to IRAN in the 1970s, and later in the 1980s during the war, Iraq was able to capture some of this equipment from Iran. In any event, it represents a tiny fraction of Saddam's former arsonal.

When it comes to chemical weapons, Iraq had been making and producing such weapons since the early 1970s.

It is true that the US government did supply Trucks, Transport Helicopters, and various supplies that have duel uses.

But I have never seen the sale of US Combat Weapon System to Iraq. If you disagree, please name the Weapon System.

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