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Old 11-19-2003, 09:45 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23


It's more than that. Comments like that from the mayor of a world capitol are sensational and irresponsible.
Actually many in the US believe the same. Therefore it is not irresponsible. I'd have him removed from office this instant if possible for lying to the American people.

Also Angela is right on the money, not supporting Bush does not infer support of Osama or Sadaam.
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:52 AM   #32
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All that $ spent on security, and a tabloid reporter was able to do this..


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...0031119LON600D
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Old 11-19-2003, 11:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Simply out of interest, where did you hear that?
I heard it on many news stations in the US. I believe Fox and CNN.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
But wolfwill, the question still remains, for these who will be knocking down this statue as well as the countless others who wont, how does this equal they would support Hussein?
To me, it seems obvious. What do you think the Arab television stations do with that footage? They air it over and over which incites extremists. By inciting extremists you are giving strength to Saddam.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
It's a counter action only to demonstrate a point. It doesn't indicate these guys are against Saddam's removal. Remember its the war they're protesting, not Hussein's removal.
How can one protest the war and not protest Saddam's removal? I don't think Saddam would have EVER been removed without war. He was too close to France and Russia (there is proof of the closeness of the these relationships.)

Also, what war are they protesting? The Iraq war is over. Get over it.

There is a difficult and dangerous peace-making operation taking place right now, but not a war. And if the people are protesting the peace-making operation, would they rather we just quit and let Iraq fall into the hands of Saddam and terrorists? That's crazy.

There is a fundamental question here that I think only history will be able to answer, is the world a better place after this conflict? I believe almost all Iraqis would say their country is better off. After Iraq is stable, I hope and pray that democracy will spread throughout the Middle East and make the world safter.

There are bad guys in the world, as much as liberals don't want to believe that, it's true. These people are evil and need to be delt with, and sometimes (13 years of) sanctions from a limp world body simply doesn't work.

History will be the ultimate judge of W and I believe it will judge him favorably. I believe ten years down the road, we will live in a safer world.

ps-I thank God every day that Al Gore is not in office for this fight.
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Old 11-19-2003, 11:51 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23

To me, it seems obvious. What do you think the Arab television stations do with that footage? They air it over and over which incites extremists. By inciting extremists you are giving strength to Saddam.
That's a big leap of logic. First of all you would have to prove that was the intention of the protestors.

It's a ridiculous and tired argument. Conservative rhetoric.


Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23

There is a fundamental question here that I think only history will be able to answer, is the world a better place after this conflict? I believe almost all Iraqis would say their country is better off. After Iraq is stable, I hope and pray that democracy will spread throughout the Middle East and make the world safter.

There are bad guys in the world, as much as liberals don't want to believe that, it's true. These people are evil and need to be delt with, and sometimes (13 years of) sanctions from a limp world body simply doesn't work.

History will be the ultimate judge of W and I believe it will judge him favorably. I believe ten years down the road, we will live in a safer world.
You're right, at this point, only history will be able to answer...unfortunately I don't believe you'll get the answer you're looking for.

So liberals don't believe there are bad guys? That's a new one, hadn't heard that one before.

Yes let's spread democracy all over the world, but when you get protestors, a product of democracy, then just kill them and ask for immunity. What a great man...
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Old 11-19-2003, 12:02 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

That's a big leap of logic. First of all you would have to prove that was the intention of the protestors.

It's a ridiculous and tired argument. Conservative rhetoric.
That's not a leap of logic, that IS logic. Let's be honest here.


Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

You're right, at this point, only history will be able to answer...unfortunately I don't believe you'll get the answer you're looking for.
Only time will tell.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
So liberals don't believe there are bad guys? That's a new one, hadn't heard that one before.
Opinion.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yes let's spread democracy all over the world, but when you get protestors, a product of democracy, then just kill them and ask for immunity. What a great man...
Kill what? The protests? Is that what happened? What immunity?
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Old 11-19-2003, 12:55 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23


That's not a leap of logic, that IS logic. Let's be honest here.
So then by this logic, anyone who supported the war also led to the strength of extremists. Don't you think waging war incited these extremists as well? In fact many believe that recruited for these extremists groups have risen recently. This weak "logic" can run both ways, so be careful in the future when you accuse someone of supporting someone like Saddam.




Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23

Kill what? The protests? Is that what happened? What immunity?
Sources say Bush asked for immunity for his security team if one "accidentily killed" a protestor. Luckily they denied him his wish. But this doesn't sound like one who supports democracy.
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Old 11-19-2003, 12:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Sources say Bush asked for immunity for his security team if one "accidentily killed" a protestor. Luckily they denied him his wish. But this doesn't sound like one who supports democracy.
Why? Because once he was granted the immunity, he would have his team open fire on the protesters? Please.

With the anti-Americanism that is running through the world right now, an accident could very easily turn into a witch hunt. People like the mayor of London who make irresponsible comments fuel this fire. I would hate to have an American security employee made an example of.
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Old 11-19-2003, 01:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23


Why? Because once he was granted the immunity, he would have his team open fire on the protesters? Please.

With the anti-Americanism that is running through the world right now, an accident could very easily turn into a witch hunt. People like the mayor of London who make irresponsible comments fuel this fire. I would hate to have an American security employee made an example of.
But you wouldn't mind if he killed someone and didn't have to be held under the same investigation as anyone else? That's not democracy.
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Old 11-19-2003, 01:26 PM   #39
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


So liberals don't believe there are bad guys? That's a new one, hadn't heard that one before.
Liberals do believe there are bad guys, but many lack the resolve to deal with these people.

Example, Clinton's dealing with Bin Laden, or lack there of. After FIVE!!!!! major terror attacks (1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa and the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole) on US targets throughout the 90's and 2000, Clinton PROMISED to bring the killers to justice. These were empty promises.

Clinton didn't have the strength to do what needed to be done, which was putting boots on the ground in Afganistan. Because of his fear to go after the bad guys we had the 9/11 attacks. (Please don't try to put the blame for these attacks on the Bush administration-the attacks were planned by Bin Laden, in Afganistan from 1996 to 2001. That was Clinton's watch.)

Yes, war is awful. However, sometimes it is necessary. The majority of the American people know this and support the Iraq war and president Bush. In times when you have nuts flying planes into buildings, you may need to use force. We are at war with a violent group of lethal terrorists who have no regard for human life. You cannot look the other (ala Clinton) way in this war or we will die. You must face your enemy head on and destroy him. As barbaric as that may sound, unfortunately, it is true.
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:00 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23


Yes, war is awful. However, sometimes it is necessary. The majority of the American people know this and support the Iraq war and president Bush. In times when you have nuts flying planes into buildings, you may need to use force. We are at war with a violent group of lethal terrorists who have no regard for human life. You cannot look the other (ala Clinton) way in this war or we will die. You must face your enemy head on and destroy him. As barbaric as that may sound, unfortunately, it is true.
Once again I ask you to get your facts straight. There were no Iraqis in those planes. Is it they support Bush or the false implications of the administration, such as Iraq had something to do with 9/11?
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:07 PM   #41
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FizzingWhizzbees,

Never said that if one opposed military action in Iraq that one supported Saddam. I'm not sure how everyone in the crowd feels, and I doubt you know them all as well. I suspect few of them celebrated Saddam's overthrow since they devoted so much time and energy to preventing the action that achieved that goal, and they are now mocking the the tearing down of Statues of Saddam by Iraqi people. The War was indeed the only way to overthrow Saddam, but if you have a better idea, I'd love to hear your technical explanation.

Yes, I've heard plenty of claims about protesting Saddam and not supporting Saddam. But many of these same people listened to Saddam's lies about the efects of Sanctions for a decade and never once voiced support for his removal through military force.

Its unfortunate people do not see the facts of US involvement with Iraq in the 1980s and are unwilling to look at the bigger picture of what was happening at the time. For starters, you allege the USA sold weapon systems to Iraq, can you name any?


"And Sting, you know as well as anyone that he's not just here to discuss international issues, he's done that on two previous occassions. He's here for a state visit which serves no purpose other than giving him some nice pics for his re-election campaign."

You could make that claim of any leader, anywhere.
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:34 PM   #42
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Klaus,

There is no evidence that Al Quida is a bigger threat than it was a year ago. Life in Iraq continues improve. Tens of Billions of US dollars are coming in to help the Iraqi people. Other countries may hope the USA does not succeed, luckily for the Iraqi people, their hope will not be realized

Angela Harlem,

If you carefully look at my post, you will notice that I did not specifically claim anyone was supporting Saddam, although I did not rule the possibility out. Burning or tearing down an effigy of Bush, mocking Iraqi people celebration of the downfall of Saddam, does not strike me as a sign of opposition to Saddam.

Would you tell veterans there was no credible reason for the actions they have taken? Some of those who believe the USA had no right to act last Spring feel the USA had no right to act in World War II. If your a Pacifist and think that, thats ok. But I think a women has the right to use violence to defend herself from being raped. I think a man has the right to use force to defend his family from an intruder. I believe the Police have the right to take a number of actions that may involve violence to defend the citizens of their community. I believe the Military has the right to defend this country and other countries from the actions of a ruthless, unlawful, dicatator.

The Moral right to act against Saddam: the deaths of 1.7 million people caused by Saddams unprovoked, unlawful actions.

The Legal right to act against Saddam: Resolutions 678, 687, 1443, all of which authorize the use of force if Saddam fails to comply or is in material breech of any resolutions passed against him under Chapter VII rules of the United Nations.
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:40 PM   #43
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'We don't want Bush visit'
By Emma Owen, This is London
18 November 2003
Two-thirds of Londoners do not think it is the right time for President Bush to come to the UK, according to a This is London poll.
In response to the question 'Is this the right time for President Bush to visit the UK?', 66 per cent of 1,834 voters answered no, while only 34 per cent said yes.

And asked what their principle objection was to Bush's state visit, 29% of the 1625 respondents cited the war on Iraq, while 20% said it was the policing costs.
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:44 PM   #44
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Angela Harlem,

Another thing, the protestors if they do support the removal of Saddam should remember that it was the WAR that removed Saddam!

Scarletwine,

There is not indisputible evidence that Bush has lied about anything. You can infer all you want, but the facts and the Public do not agree or support your conclusion at this time.

BonoVoxSupastar,

As far as getting facts straight, lets remember that Woolfill did not say there were Iraqi's on those planes.
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Old 11-19-2003, 08:09 PM   #45
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Quote:
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As far as getting facts straight, lets remember that Woolfill did not say there were Iraqi's on those planes.
Quote:
The majority of the American people know this and support the Iraq war and president Bush. In times when you have nuts flying planes into buildings, you may need to use force.
Well then maybe he along with the president should learn how to construct a paragraph. 9/11 and the war on Iraq are two separate ideas and should be handled separately. Not thrown into the same idea like so many want to do.
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