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Old 05-31-2005, 08:57 AM   #16
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Yeah, and about Vietnam.

hiphop, come on now. Think what you will about the US and its military but there have been a lot of men and women who have served with honor over the years. Is it too much to ask that a simple Memorial Day thread proceed without controversy?
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Old 05-31-2005, 08:57 AM   #17
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Yes it is way too much to ask BAW
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Old 05-31-2005, 09:03 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
hiphop, come on now. Think what you will about the US and its military but there have been a lot of men and women who have served with honor over the years. Is it too much to ask that a simple Memorial Day thread proceed without controversy?
I would question why a Memorial Day thread SPECIFICALLY for US troops is seen as desirable. Of course, individuals are perfectly entitled to start such threads if they wish but I personally think that it would have been better to have devoted such a thread to all armed forces.

Or if the thread was intended to be about WWI specifically, could it not be dedicated to ALL troops who died in that war and not just the US troops, given that the US casualties were only 10 highest on the list?

And, as Hiphop already pointed out, this is supposed to be a discussion/debating forum.
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Old 05-31-2005, 09:41 AM   #19
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It's so sad that even things like honoring war veterans attract flaming here.

Anyway, even though I'm a day late, bless all of the soldiers, living or not. Their sacrifices should be looked upon with great respect.
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Old 05-31-2005, 10:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife

hiphop, come on now. Think what you will about the US and its military but there have been a lot of men and women who have served with honor over the years. Is it too much to ask that a simple Memorial Day thread proceed without controversy?
Mrs BAW: Controversy is not my intention.

It´s a fact that from a veteran you can learn. As nbcrusader pointed out, there are Veterans who will tell you about courage, determination and self-sacrifice. There are Veterans who will tell you how great a soldier´s life is, and who will be admired by children because they served in a war.

Also, there are Veterans who will tell you dark, cruel stuff about when they were in Vietnam. There are Veterans who will tell you horrible stories about Iraq, too. Well, only if you are interested in hearing their story.

Does that 103 y.o. men tell you of mustard gas? Of his buddies hanging themselves because they could not bear the creulties around them anymore? Does he tell of the wounded? What about their honor? Aren´t they the most honorable of all? And do you know that most of them would spit in our faces if we tell them about honor?

If any memorial day in any country misses to acknowledge those cruelties, I say, what is it a Memorial day for? Just to remember we are all so happy and proud of our nation?

I don´t see where the controversy is. But I understand the motive: you want this thread to stay a clean and nice and perfect Memorial thread, so we can all hail our wonderful God-blessed troops and honored armies, hooray! and God forbid anyone says anything negative about fighting or soldiers or war or your fucking American nationalism that really makes me vomit.

Dead soldiers don´t speak, you know.

And Mister Hendrix there should be reminded that Jimi Hendrix served in Vietnam. From what I heard, it wasn´t his hobby, and he did not think of it as an honorable thing to do.
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:28 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


But I understand the motive: you want this thread to stay a clean and nice and perfect Memorial thread, so we can all hail our wonderful God-blessed troops and honored armies, hooray! and God forbid anyone says anything negative about fighting or soldiers or war or your fucking American nationalism that really makes me vomit.

Excuse me? Me and my fucking American nationalism? Are you refering to me specifically or Americans in general? And why would you presume to know what my motives are?

Wow. I guess I was under the mistaken impression that we were friends and we could respectfully disagree with each other without resorting to insults.
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:37 AM   #22
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Yeah, me too.

For heaven's sake.

We all know that war is hellish and that innocent people suffer because of it. But we all also know that veterans do deserve our respect.

I understand that subjects should be open for debate, and maybe I would have an easier time with letting even "memorial" threads be open for debate if the debate could be a little more peaceful and respectful.
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:50 AM   #23
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife


Excuse me? Me and my fucking American nationalism? Are you refering to me specifically or Americans in general? And why would you presume to know what my motives are?

Wow. I guess I was under the mistaken impression that we were friends and we could respectfully disagree with each other without resorting to insults.
Nope I am not referring to you as a person, I am referring to a specific mindset that dominates this thread and obviously the view of many Americans.

Sure we are friends and can respectfully disagree. Also about American nationalism, if you desire so. If you had the feeling that my personal respect towards you was missing, sorry for that.

I like to make myself clear, and you know me Now do me a favor and see if you can find this book. I know you like to read, and it´s well worth it. k?

edit: ehm didn´t I mention the book? I wrote another sentence in one of the edits.. its Norman Mailer´s "The Naked and the Dead". Highly recommended.
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:54 AM   #24
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"Fucking American nationalism that really makes me vomit" might have tipped her off.

Just saying.
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Old 05-31-2005, 12:14 PM   #25
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Originally posted by STING2


This thread was meant as a memorial day thread to honor US troops who have died defending the United States. Please take your political views and discuss them in another thread.
Maybe you should take your memorial threath too a i love war forum instead of a genaral international forum.
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Old 05-31-2005, 12:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
Maybe you should take your memorial threath too a i love war forum instead of a genaral international forum.


I was going to give this thread a chance to return to civilized debate, but I don't see it happening.

EDITED TO SAY: I think that it *could* have been possible to honor all troops in this thread, not just American ones (even though it is, as BAW pointed out, an American holiday), and perhaps *even* to honor those troops, who fought after all for the right to free speech (among other things), with civilized debate on the nature of wars and what they do to the men and women who serve in them. Lest it be said that I singled out the non-American dissenters in my criticism of this thread, I think perhaps EVERYONE in this thread could have been more respectful of the opposing viewpoints.

Thank you, please drive through.
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