Lincoln: America's Greatest President; also, Totally Gay! - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-12-2005, 09:14 AM   #31
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Originally posted by U2democrat


same.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:15 AM   #32
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I love rewriting history!! Its quite grand to live in a time such as ours, when we are so socially, culturally and scientifically advanced that we can judge the entire course of human history by our own, correct standards.

Saying that Lincoln is gay is problematic at best. First, it assumes that their is a sort of checklist for gaydom. Is there? Can someone really score 4 out of 6 on the gay scale. What if someone scores one out of six and is in a homosexual relationship? Is he more or less gay than a person scoring 5/6 who is in a heterosexual relationship? If we're discussing stereotyping, then can someone explain to me what a "typical" gay person is like so we can stand Lincoln up next to them and find out how he measures up.

Next, we're using a standard devised in the here and now to judge the then and there. Always, ALWAYS, a bad idea. Standards of conduct for men and women, married and unmarried, were very different in the mid 19th centruy than they are today. So it seems, at the very least, we should try to figure out what a "typical" 19th century gay person was like and compare Lincoln to that standard.

Then finish rewriting the history books based on our enlightened findings.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:18 AM   #33
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I think at some point in every public persons life (or in this case after) their sexuality gets questioned. It's even happened to the lovely man in my avatar and signature.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:28 AM   #34
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If you read the review again, it turns out Lincoln was only mostly gay. (sorry, I just had to do this.)


MIRACLE MAX:
"Look who knows so much. Well, it just so happens that your friend here is only mostly gay. There's a big difference between mostly gay and all gay. Please open his mouth.

Inigo does. Max inserts the bellows in Westley's mouth and starts to pump.

MIRACLE MAX:
Now, mostly gay is slightly straight. Now, all gay...well, with all gay, there's usually only one thing that you can do.

INIGO:
What's that?

He stops pumping.

MIRACLE MAX:
Go through his clothes and look for loose change.

He starts pumping again.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:35 AM   #35
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Interesting thought ... so who is responsible for emancipating the slaves in the northern states? A group of people? My Church denomination takes credit for being among the first Americans to take a stand against slavery.
Most of the first abolitionists were religious groups, and many were often laughed off as extremists and zealots. They also got the old 'if you don't want slaves don't have them but don't force your beliefs on me it's my life' stuff thrown at them too.

While I have no idea if Lincoln was gay and I do not care, the part I do disagree with is him being our greatest president. I believe he failed to keep peace in the country and jumped the gun calling insurrection when the founding fathers of southern states feared a day when a state would be fired upon for wanting to leave and left the technical loophole in the 10th amendment (notice most of the last states to ratify were southern ones) So technically secession WAS constitutional and he had no right to call them in rebellion. He also suspended habeous corpus, and jailed the entire Maryland state legislature to keep them from voting to secede leaving DC boxed in enemy territory.

It also upsets me that he was looked upon as a hero to the slaves when in reality, when you study his beliefs, he never wanted a society where blacks and whites mixed and lived as equals- he wanted the freed slaves shipped back to Africa, like the ones who were sent to Liberia earlier in the 19th century. In his presidential campaign, he even said he didn't care if slavery continued where it already existed, he only wanted to stop it from spreading west to new terrritories. The abolitionists disliked him for this and tried running an alternative candidate.

What else could have been done? Anything peaceful that would have saved over 600,000 US lives, north and south, saved the property of thousands burned out, and helped countless slaves literally homeless after the war (which led directly to the poverty of blacks in inner cities and back countries) With farm machinery coming in by the 1880's, slavery would have been impractical and phased out by the last of the century anyway, and it would have been better for everyone involved including the slaves themselves in the long run. To me the entire Civil War was a tragic waste of life and property, millions of lives destroyed, hard feelings for generations. But of course no one has a crystal ball....
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:36 AM   #36
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replyint to coem

WTF was that?

I'm laughing my ass off and I don't have any idea why

Please clarify.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:40 AM   #37
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It's from a great movie called "The Princess Bride." I switched the word "dead" with the word "gay" in an attempt to bring some humor to the thread. I just thought it was funny that Lincoln scored five out of seven on the gay scale.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:46 AM   #38
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That raises an interesting question. Are there degrees of "gayness"?

I doubt people, gay or straight, would want to be rank that way.
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:34 AM   #39
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It's not so much a "rank" as a spectrum. I believe it was first Kinsey's idea, theorizing that a few people are exclusively heterosexual and a few are exclusively homosexual, but most fall somewhere in between.

I have to say, this makes sense. I know quite a few people who identify as straight, but who have had some relations with persons of the same sex. Maybe they had them once many years ago or continue to have them today, but if they find them sexually stimulating and interesting, can we really say this person is 100% heterosexual?

This is not to say there aren't 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual people out there. It's just that they're the exception, not the rule.
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Old 01-12-2005, 11:11 AM   #40
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i read that 1 in 100 people are asexual, have no preference at all. that would suck!!!!!!
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Old 01-12-2005, 11:34 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
It's not so much a "rank" as a spectrum. I believe it was first Kinsey's idea, theorizing that a few people are exclusively heterosexual and a few are exclusively homosexual, but most fall somewhere in between.

I have to say, this makes sense. I know quite a few people who identify as straight, but who have had some relations with persons of the same sex. Maybe they had them once many years ago or continue to have them today, but if they find them sexually stimulating and interesting, can we really say this person is 100% heterosexual?
I find this interesting as most prior discussion revolved around the orientation of an individual as who they are, not what they did.

I think Melon has stated that one who is not fully homosexual is bisexual.
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Old 01-12-2005, 11:48 AM   #42
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What about those who aren't sure what they are?
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Old 01-12-2005, 11:50 AM   #43
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Well, if nothing else, this explains by Walt Whitman was such a fan.

Oh captain my captain...

sd
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Old 01-12-2005, 11:52 AM   #44
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Originally posted by U2democrat
What about those who aren't sure what they are?
Gay
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Old 01-12-2005, 12:00 PM   #45
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