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Old 01-11-2005, 03:55 PM   #16
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I don't mind if somebody posits that Abe was gay but saying that this explains his stance on slavery during the war is drawing a very long bow,
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Old 01-11-2005, 04:30 PM   #17
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I don't mind if somebody posits that Abe was gay but saying that this explains his stance on slavery during the war is drawing a very long bow,
Oh, absolutely. No one in their right mind would suggest this. If any historian at any reputable university or whatever said this they'd get fired on the spot.
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Old 01-11-2005, 04:55 PM   #18
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I, for one, wish Falwell would swallow his tongue.
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:10 PM   #19
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I don't mind if somebody posits that Abe was gay but saying that this explains his stance on slavery during the war is drawing a very long bow,
Did someone suggest this?
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:13 PM   #20
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I, for one, wish Falwell would swallow his tongue.
Welcome to the club. Falwell..
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:15 PM   #21
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it has been suggested by some academics that Lincoln could better relate to slaves because of his status as a fellow outsider -- sexually, not racially.

while i think that any sort of obvious social difference does increase one's powers of empathy (or maybe just make you really bitter), it is a stretch to view this as a monocausal explanation for Lincoln to free the slaves during the war. while that might have been a small contributing factor, it was a brilliant political move more than anything else.
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:20 PM   #22
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


...
although since we haven't read the book

it's hard to have a discussion I guess.
sheesh

that never stopped anyone in here from going off to the races with their own uninformed bias

i wish some would just read the initial posted article, before replying
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:43 PM   #23
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it has been suggested by some academics that Lincoln could better relate to slaves because of his status as a fellow outsider -- sexually, not racially.
I once knew someone a long time ago who I believe was gay and he befriended blacks and other outsiders in rural southern Virginia which was, and still is, very racially divided. I kind of got chills reading that description of Lincoln as emotionally remote and always disappearing to hang out with men because that sounds so much like this guy, who was surrounded by women in his family and seemed to crave the company of men. He also found work that took him on long trips away from the family. One day a couple of years ago I had the revelation that he was gay but I'll never know since he committed suicide.
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:56 PM   #24
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Mr. Diamond is up on this book....mentioned it in the Apostle Paul thread.....

He also mentioned it over a beer we had last month.....


Abraham Lincoln, like Kennedy was a politician.....and a pretty good one. He only Emancipated the slaves in the Southern States though.......ever think about that?
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Old 01-11-2005, 10:21 PM   #25
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We don't know what went on in his head, so it's hard to judge. Just a few quick points though - a troubled marriage is not always a result of homosexual feelings, nor is his views on war. I don't know how this conclusion resulted, he wasn't alive during my era, and chances are that I will lose interest in this thread.
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:13 PM   #26
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Originally posted by verte76


Oh, absolutely. No one in their right mind would suggest this. If any historian at any reputable university or whatever said this they'd get fired on the spot.
Interesting, especially since you're involved in history quite a bit.
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Old 01-12-2005, 04:16 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Mr. Diamond is up on this book....mentioned it in the Apostle Paul thread.....

He also mentioned it over a beer we had last month.....


Abraham Lincoln, like Kennedy was a politician.....and a pretty good one. He only Emancipated the slaves in the Southern States though.......ever think about that?
Hmm, being the intellectual tortoise that I am - I vaguely remember that part of the conversation.

Interesting thought ... so who is responsible for emancipating the slaves in the northern states? A group of people? My Church denomination takes credit for being among the first Americans to take a stand against slavery.
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Old 01-12-2005, 05:56 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


I once knew someone a long time ago who I believe was gay and he befriended blacks and other outsiders in rural southern Virginia which was, and still is, very racially divided. I kind of got chills reading that description of Lincoln as emotionally remote and always disappearing to hang out with men because that sounds so much like this guy, who was surrounded by women in his family and seemed to crave the company of men. He also found work that took him on long trips away from the family. One day a couple of years ago I had the revelation that he was gay but I'll never know since he committed suicide.

tragically, typically gay.

what saddens me is with all the discussion in the media and the hysteria over gay marriage and to a lesser extent gay adoption, what often goes unnoticed is that we are dealing with human beings. i don't know a single gay person who hasn't dealt with severe depression over coming to terms with their sexuality, and many contemplate suicide when faced with a society that consistently belittles them.

but, hey, whatever wins you elections!
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Old 01-12-2005, 06:39 AM   #29
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Interesting, especially since you're involved in history quite a bit.
Yes, but not U.S. Presidential history particularly. I've only read bits and pieces of stuff about Lincoln's problem marriage. You're right, a problem marriage is itself not necessarily a sign of homosexuality. I do know that all of the blame has been put on Mary Todd, and I wonder how fair this is.
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:52 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BostonAnne
My Church denomination takes credit for being among the first Americans to take a stand against slavery.
same.
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