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Old 03-13-2006, 02:59 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Deep, do you remember me starting threads on Al-Sadr back when the invasion began?

He has the potential to be the next dicator.



Yes, I absolutely do.


And I wonder if doing a targeted assassination of him would have made things better or worse.

They did use him too reign in his followers and end the violence for some time. He is a home grown Shiite leader and Sisstani is the Iranian Shiite leader.

They both wield a lot of power and can set the direction of the Shiites.

I believe they both have been just biding their time to consolidate power
and hope for more weakening of the Sunnis.
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Old 03-13-2006, 04:36 PM   #32
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I remember your posts about al-Sadr too. He could indeed become the next dictator.
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:40 PM   #33
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http://www.time.com/time/question/li...d.html?cnn=yes

The headlines are often frightening, but how does life go on for the people of Iraq? How do you live and work in an atmosphere of constant fear and violence? How do you send your kids to school? Buy groceries? Visit friends? TIME's Aparisim Ghosh, who writes in the magazine this week about U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad , posed such questions from TIME readers to Iraqi citizens
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:39 PM   #34
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Every American should read what those Iraqis who work for TIME have to say. It's very revealing.
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Old 03-15-2006, 05:27 AM   #35
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For the life of me, I just don't understand some of the American people.

Instead of undermining and protesting President Bush, American's should be GRATEFUL that he's fighting back. When you have a cancer in your body, you don't treat it with lolipops, candy and sugar.....you cut it out so your body can heal.

Terrorism is a cancer in the civilized world and you can't fight it by negotiations and endless warnings....you have to fight them at their own game because you're not dealing with normal civilized people. You're dealing with people who sent 3,000 people to their deaths on September 11th, and you're dealing with people who delight in parading helplessly bound hostages before the cameras and then cutting their throats while shouting "god is great, god is great", as if they were doing G-ds work by slaughtering innocent people.

Israel was a victim of the first gulf war in 1991 when 40 missiles were fired on us from Iraq. We could have wiped Iraq off the face of the earth at that time but America asked us to wait and stay out of it fearing that Israel's involvement in that war would have broken up the allied coalition (which at the time included the Arab nations). So we did.

Thankfully, the American and allied forces, led by President Bush, have removed that immediate threat.

In my opinion, it is not a valid argument to say that Bush should have taken out Al-Qaida first.
In order to fight in Afghanistan, Iraq first had to be neutralized and Saddam Hussein had to be removed from power in order to give the U.S.A more leeway in the area. Saddam was removed but I'm very sorry to say that the U.S.A totally underestimated the force of the Iraqi resistance - fed by Al-Qaida.

In short, the war on terror is totally justified and I wish I could give President Bush and each allied soldier a hearty pat on the back for doing what has to be done.

I also wish I could ask all the smart-alecs how THEY would handle the war on terror.....

(by smart alecs I am NOT referring to ANYONE on this board)
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Old 03-15-2006, 09:56 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
Terrorism is a cancer in the civilized world and you can't fight it by negotiations and endless warnings....you have to fight them at their own game because you're not dealing with normal civilized people. You're dealing with people who sent 3,000 people to their deaths on September 11th, and you're dealing with people who delight in parading helplessly bound hostages before the cameras and then cutting their throats while shouting "god is great, god is great", as if they were doing G-ds work by slaughtering innocent people.


stop. stop it right there. while i respect you and your posts, the above is a complete piece of BULLSHIT.

Iraq and 9-11 have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another. NOTHING! it defies all logic that a secular despot like Hussein would give non-existent WMD's to religious fanatics like Bin Laden who seek to restore a caliphate and who view dictators like Hussein in similar terms as they do the United States.

what is going on in Iraq is COMPLETELY and TOTALLY different from a battle against Al-Qaeda, and it's only now, that we've invaded and under-funded and mismanaged virtually everything i the post-war, that Al-Qaeda has infiltrated Iraq, but in vastly fewer numbers than the administration would have you believe. the insurgents are mostly the Iraqis themselves, and we've got a civil war on our hands between a population that has only recently discovered religion and sectarian divides.

don't ever, EVER conflate what's going on in Iraq with the memory of the people who died on 9-11.
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Old 03-15-2006, 10:55 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




stop. stop it right there. while i respect you and your posts, the above is a complete piece of BULLSHIT.

Iraq and 9-11 have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another. NOTHING! it defies all logic that a secular despot like Hussein would give non-existent WMD's to religious fanatics like Bin Laden who seek to restore a caliphate and who view dictators like Hussein in similar terms as they do the United States.

what is going on in Iraq is COMPLETELY and TOTALLY different from a battle against Al-Qaeda, and it's only now, that we've invaded and under-funded and mismanaged virtually everything i the post-war, that Al-Qaeda has infiltrated Iraq, but in vastly fewer numbers than the administration would have you believe. the insurgents are mostly the Iraqis themselves, and we've got a civil war on our hands between a population that has only recently discovered religion and sectarian divides.

don't ever, EVER conflate what's going on in Iraq with the memory of the people who died on 9-11.
If you'll notice, I included my statement in a totally different paragraph referring to terrorism IN GENERAL being a cancer. I did not make a direct correlation between 9/11 and Iraq. I was referring to the war on terror in general.
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Old 03-15-2006, 11:27 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


If you'll notice, I included my statement in a totally different paragraph referring to terrorism IN GENERAL being a cancer. I did not make a direct correlation between 9/11 and Iraq. I was referring to the war on terror in general.


no, that is not true -- you are conflating the War on Terror with the Invasion of Iraq. they are not the same thing, they have never been the same thing, and the administration has tried and failed to make them into the same thing -- please notice how the rationale for the war has changed, dramatically, since the beginning, and please notice how no one in the administration is able to mention the war in Iraq without tying it to 9-11. the insurgents in Iraq are not going to be flying airplanes into the Sears Tower anytime soon.

these are two entirely different scenarios dealing with entirely different enemies -- insurgents, and Al-Qaeda-type terrorists. while one might aid the other, since we've given them both a common enemy, one is not the same as the other.

thinking that all Muslims who attack the west are all terrorists, or all terrorists with similar motivations who simply hate with no rhyme or reason is exactly why the Administration has got us into such a mess to begin with -- underestimate the complexities of culture at your own risk.
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Old 03-15-2006, 11:52 AM   #39
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Bin Laden didn't like Saddam, and he said so. He called him an "infidel" and even a "socialist". There's no way those guys could have ever worked with each other.
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Old 03-19-2006, 06:13 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511





thinking that all Muslims who attack the west are all terrorists, or all terrorists with similar motivations who simply hate with no rhyme or reason is exactly why the Administration has got us into such a mess to begin with -- underestimate the complexities of culture at your own risk.
OF COURSE all muslims (or any other ethnic group) that terrorize innocent people are terrorists - the motive doesn't matter. Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist too, and he wasn't a Muslim.....I don't quite understand the point you were trying to make.

You're right though about the U.S. underestimating the resistance.
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Old 03-19-2006, 11:43 AM   #41
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The U.S. underestimating the resistance is what I keep coming back to. The Administration botched the post-war planning. Iraqis support the removal of Saddam, but that's what they think of the aftermath.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:57 AM   #42
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Three years today, who ever thought it would be three years

cnn.com

"Three years after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, bodies of civilians turn up daily; at least 2,314 U.S. military personnel have died; elections have been held, but a government hasn't been formed; and officials from Iraq and the United States are debating whether the county is in a civil war. "We are losing each day as an average 50 to 60 people throughout the country, if not more. If this is not civil war, then God knows what civil war is," said former Iraq Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. President Bush is offering an optimistic vision for Iraq. "We're implementing a strategy that will lead to victory in Iraq," he said Sunday."

I thought "victory" happened a long time ago
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Old 03-21-2006, 03:03 AM   #43
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Marines face war crimes probe in 15 civilians' shooting deaths

Tuesday, March 21, 2006
BY BASSEM MROUE
Associated Press

BAGHDAD -- After a roadside bomb killed a U.S. Marine in western Iraq, American troops went into nearby houses and shot dead 15 members of two families, including a 3-year-old-girl, residents told the Associated Press yesterday.

The military says about 12 Marines are under investigation for possible war crimes by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service following the Nov. 19 insurgent attack in Haditha, 140 miles northwest of Baghdad.

The allegations against the Marines were brought forward by Time magazine, which reported this week that it obtained a videotape two months ago taken by a Haditha journalism student that shows the dead still in their nightclothes.

The magazine report mirrored what was told independently to the AP by residents who described what happened as "a massacre."

A military spokeswoman said yesterday the allegations were being taken "very seriously."

Khaled Ahmed Rsayef, whose brother and six other relatives were killed, said the roadside bomb exploded about 7:15 a.m. in the al-Subhani neighborhood, heavily damaging a U.S. Humvee.

A U.S. military statement in November described it as an ambush on a joint U.S.-Iraqi patrol that left 15 civilians, eight insurgents and a U.S. Marine dead in the bombing and a subsequent firefight. The statement said the 15 civilians were killed by the blast, a claim that residents denied.

They said the only shooting done after the bombing was by U.S. forces.

"American troops immediately cordoned off the area and raided two nearby houses, shooting at everyone inside," said Rsayef, who didn't witness the events but whose 15-year-old niece says she did. "It was a massacre in every sense of the word."

Rsayef and another resident, former city councilman Imad Jawad Hamza, who spoke with hospital officials and residents, said the first house to be stormed was that of Abdul-Hamid Hassan Ali, which was near the scene of the bombing.

Ali, 76, whose left leg was amputated years ago because of diabetes, died after being shot in the stomach and chest. His wife, Khamisa, 66, was shot in the back. Ali's son, Jahid, 43, was hit in the head and chest. Son Walid, 37, was burned to death after a grenade was thrown into his room, and a third son, 28-year-old Rashid, died after he was shot in the head and chest, Rsayef and Hamza said.

Also among the dead were son Walid's wife, Asma, 32, who was shot in the head, and their son Abdullah, 4, who was shot in the chest, Rsayef and Hamza said.

Walid's 8-year-old daughter, Iman, and his 6-year-old son, Abdul-Rahman, were wounded and U.S. troops took them to Baghdad for treatment. The only person who escaped unharmed was Walid's 5-month-old daughter, Asia. The three children now live with their maternal grandparents, Rsayef and Hamza said.

Rsayef said those killed in the second house were his brother Younis, 43, who was shot in the stomach and chest, and the brother's wife, Aida, 40, who was shot in the neck and chest while still in bed, where she was recuperating from bladder surgery. Their 8-year-old son, Mohammed, bled to death after being shot in the right arm, Rsayef said.

Also killed were Younis' daughters, Nour, 14, who was shot in the head; Seba, 10, who was hit in the chest; Zeinab, 5, shot in the chest and stomach; and Aisha, 3, who was shot in the chest. Hoda Yassin, a visiting relative, also was killed, Rsayef and Hamza said.

The only survivor from Younis' family was his 15-year-old daughter, Safa, who pretended she was dead. She is living with her grandparents, Rsayef said.

The troops then shot and killed four brothers who were walking in the street and five men who were in a car near the scene, Hamza and Rsayef said.

It was not clear if the nine men were involved in the attack, as the military statement said.

According to the Defense Department, the Marine who was killed near Haditha that day was Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, 20, of El Paso, Texas. He was assigned to 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force.

Time said the available evidence did not prove the Marines deliberately killed civilians. The magazine, however, said its investigation showed that walls and ceilings in both houses were pockmarked with shrapnel and bullet holes as well as sprays of blood. The video did not show any bullet holes on the outside of the houses -- holes that might support the military report of a gunbattle.
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Old 03-25-2006, 05:08 PM   #44
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In other violence Saturday, according to police:

• A female teacher was killed by Iraqi soldiers as she drove past their convoy in Baghdad.

• A Sunni mosque preacher was killed by gunmen when he stopped to have his car repaired in west Baghdad.

• Gunmen killed a man driving with his family and wounded his two sons in the capital.

• A bomb exploded in a traffic police hut near the Iraqi Finance Ministry in north Baghdad, killing four civilians and wounding five people, including a traffic policeman.

• Gunmen killed three people in the northern city of Mosul.

• A roadside bomb killed two people in Balabroz, 55 miles northeast of Baghdad.

• Drive-by gunmen killed the bodyguard of the head of Basra's Sunni Endowment, the organization that oversees the sect's religious property in the predominantly Shiite southern city.
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Old 03-26-2006, 02:08 PM   #45
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US troops arrest Iraqi govt forces, find bunker

22 minutes ago

U.S. troops on Sunday arrested at least 40 Iraqi Interior Ministry forces who were holding 17 foreigners in a secret bunker complex, political sources said.

A Reuters reporter who approached the bunker complex on Sunday was turned away by Shi'ite militiamen.

It was not clear who the foreigners were but the Shi'ite-led Iraqi government has launched a crackdown on Sunni foreign fighters from Arab states it accuses of carrying out suicide bombings which have killed thousands of mostly Shi'ite Iraqis.

U.S. troops last year found 173 mostly Sunni Arab prisoners held in a secret Interior Ministry bunker. They showed signs of torture and malnourishment in a scandal that embarrassed the government.

Sunni Arab leaders accuse Interior Ministry forces of working alongside Shi'ite militias who run death squads, a charge the ministry denies.
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