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Old 06-05-2004, 09:09 AM   #1
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Liberal Professor spouts off.......

some things I have said in FYM almost a year and a half ago!!!!

[Q]The time has come to revisit the laws of war and to make them relevant to new realities. If their ultimate purpose was to serve as a shield to protect innocent civilians, they are failing miserably, since they are being used as a sword by terrorists who target such innocent civilians. Several changes should be considered:


First, democracies must be legally empowered to attack terrorists who hide among civilians, so long as proportional force is employed. Civilians who are killed while being used as human shields by terrorists must be deemed the victims of the terrorists who have chosen to hide among them, rather than those of the democracies who may have fired the fatal shot.

Second, a new category of prisoner should be recognized for captured terrorists and those who support them. They are not "prisoners of war," neither are they "ordinary criminals." They are suspected terrorists who operate outside the laws of war, and a new status should be designated for them - a status that affords them certain humanitarian rights, but does not treat them as traditional combatants.

Third, the law must come to realize that the traditional sharp line between combatants and civilians has been replaced by a continuum of civilian-ness. At the innocent end are those who do not support terrorism in any way. In the middle are those who applaud the terrorism, encourage it, but do not actively facilitate it. At the guilty end are those who help finance it, who make martyrs of the suicide bombers, who help the terrorists hide among them, and who fail to report imminent attacks of which they are aware. The law should recognize this continuum in dealing with those who are complicit, to some degree, in terrorism.

Fourth, the treaties against all forms of torture must begin to recognize differences in degree among varying forms of rough interrogation, ranging from trickery and humiliation, on the one hand, to lethal torture on the other. They must also recognize that any country faced with a ticking-time-bomb terrorist would resort to some forms of interrogation that are today prohibited by the treaty.
International law must recognize that democracies have been forced by the tactics of terrorists to make difficult decisions regarding life and death. The old black-and-white distinctions must be replaced by new categories, rules and approaches that strike the proper balance between preserving human rights and preventing human wrongs. For the law to work, it must be realistic and it must adapt to changing needs. [/Q]

Twice in one month I have agreed with Alan M. Dershowitz . Am I move to the left or he to the right?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opi...oped-headlines
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:29 AM   #2
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Well if you consult the indymedia Alan Dershowitz is simply a pawn of the neoconservativezionistfascists being made to divide the antiwar movement and make them seem out of touch. In their point of view he has moved to the right.

If you look at his record then you would say that he is a man who understands the enemys that every western democracy is facing up to and the sacrifices that must be made in order to destroy them while at the same time ensuring that we don't become police states in the process. From this point of view neither of your opinions have changed and they both happen to be the right ones.

I think that his view on such matters is consistent and is put well in his books, he was calling for accountability for torture in the war on terror in regards to torture before Abu Gharab and his opinion is 10 times more worthy than the ratbag hysterical editorials that you see every day in the papers. I would highly recomend his book The Case for Israel as it puts the entire ME conflict in a level headed factual context which can do away with the utter crap that the pro-pali groups too often bring up about Israel.

In conclusion - Dread Right, Alan Dershowitz Right ----> Both allright in my book
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Old 06-05-2004, 04:55 PM   #3
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Dershowitz is an interesting man. He also advocated that government should get out of the marriage business altogether, handing "marriage" to religions and all the legal realities into "civil unions."

Not quite sure what to think of this new article, but I can appreciate an individual who tries to think outside of a confined ideology.

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Old 06-05-2004, 05:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon

Not quite sure what to think of this new article, but I can appreciate an individual who tries to think outside of a confined ideology.

Melon
I am not sure if he was always like this. In the recent years I have grown to respect him more and more.
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Old 06-06-2004, 05:33 PM   #5
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Wow...mention Bill Clinton and the thread takes off..maybe I should change the name of this thread.
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Old 06-07-2004, 03:36 AM   #6
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I was just waiting for you to bump it


the only point I really disagree with is point #4
but I already posted more about that then about U2 on Interf so I'll let that one rest

personally it doesn't seem to me this article was written to start any sort of debate
on none of his points he gives any sort of indication on how he thinks it should be achieved
lines such as "so long as proportional force is employed", "a status that affords them certain humanitarian rights", "replaced by new categories, rules and approaches that strike the proper balance between preserving human rights and preventing human wrongs" would lead to 100 different outcomes when worked out by 100 different people

his point seems to be that terrorists can't be dealt with the same way as other criminals
but I don't think that many people don't recognize this

how one treats a "suspected" terrorist, when is one under suspicion anyway, which human rights do we want to take away from these people, how many human rights can you strip away before you turn into something inhuman yourself, how can we incorporate this in laws, will this set a precedent in laws for other situations where we as a society don't know how to beat something (for example pedophile networks) are a couple of points that should have been addressed in this article to turn it into a piece that could lead to constructive debate

the question whether you can beat terrorism with traditional methods has already been answered I would say
this article doesn't really do much to solve where to go except for stating some obvious points where changes are possible
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Old 06-07-2004, 05:19 AM   #7
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I think that the treatment and levels of persuasion that are applied should be relative to the ammount and seriousness of the evidnence that is placed in front of a judge or neutral party. That is the point that he is making, this stuff will certainly happen therefore we must ensure that it is done properly with the proper oversight that such serious matters deserve.
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