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Old 08-13-2001, 02:03 AM   #16
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Well 80sU2isBest, I guess I would consider myself a more "liberal" thinker than you. I don't always vote by party - I have actually voted republican in the past. But basically I believe:

1. We should all work toward mutual respect for our neighbors, both here in the US and globally. I do not think this view is always embraced by the right. In fact, I would argue that one of your points above, working toward religious freedom and acceptance for all religions is clearly NOT embraced by the right, which tends to be hard-line christian only, with little regard for other belief systems.

2. We should work toward a lasting peace. My perception is that the right tends to look inward, and is less open to compromise in order to achieve a world community (we've been down this road before on the treaty issues so I'll spare you the rhetoric). I really do believe this will hurt the United States in the long run as we are consistently left out of world politics.

3. We are going to have to agree to disagree on the gun issue. I just do not believe it is in our citizens best interest for everyone to have guns just laying around. From my view, the majority of the time guns are used in this country, it is in the commission of a crime, or when a child is hurt or killed in a gun-related accident (as a parent, every time I see this happen, I just want to die). There are far too many examples of western nations with more stringent gun control policies that have significantly lower crime rates. We are just a "gun" culture here. (And this from me, a southern girl!) Our constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to bear arms was actually intended to provide for a "well-armed militia", and not individual citizens. And it certainly doesn't allow some joker to walk around with a concealed weapon at a Wal-Mart so he can shoot the windows out of a car that took his parking place. (Yes, this just happened here). At the very least we should have strict licensure laws that govern who can own a gun, and requires gun safety and training. I mean crap, I can get a gun easier than I can go fishing. What is up with that? If I am a law-abiding citizen who just wants a gun around for protection, why should this be an issue? And if my kids get hold of my weapon that I have not secured properly, and does something horrible with it, I should be responsible for that.

4. I'm not going to get into the abortion issue with you here. But I would just question a system that encourages the poor to have unwanted children and then eliminates the social support structure that helps them care for those children. Where are all of the pro-life folks when it is time to raise those kids? Educate them? Clothe them?

All that being said, I think we need people of all political views involved in the process. Good, healthy debate causes everyone to re-evaluate their positions. If only politicians weren't so bent on "winning" and instead were willing to compomise for the best solution, perhaps we could quit quarreling over these issues.

Wanderer - I really liked John McCain. (yep - a Republican!) I wish the media had been a bit less successful cramming Mr. Bush down our throats before the primaries were decided - I think if the mass audience had given Mr. McCain a listen, those primaries might have been a bit tighter. Unfortunately, I believe the pundits at CNBC and CNN are deciding our presidents before we even have a chance to hear the politics.

Peace!

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[This message has been edited by Crzy4Bono (edited 08-13-2001).]
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Old 08-13-2001, 02:56 AM   #17
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well now i am a bit confused. Liberal and Conservetives and Republicans and Democrats. Which are which?

Secondly our politicans have to work together to get somewhere. If they are all about winning, like some said, then the losers are us. If our politcians dont start working together then our countries wont keep moving ahead.

80's...I do not classify myself as anything. I am very openminded and closeminded at the same time. Politcal allfiliations make me chringe. I never want to become another cons. or lib. i want to be my own person and have my own views. No harm by you though!

This is good debate!

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Old 08-13-2001, 03:17 AM   #18
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Well me being a liberal i dont know?

I am not american and in canada we have many more parties to turn to. WE even have the mariujuana party!!(but i could care less about them)

So what i have learned about liberals and dem. is mostly collected from here. From one post to another. I have learned that some of them hate eachother, and some cant even have decent conversations. You people have got to relize its all a game. Live with your fellow people without discussing this evil of politics. It, as everyone knows, divides nearly everyone. So i decided to not try to convert people. Let the politicans do that!

In america you are very limited to your choices. Your either one or the other. In canada and many other places there are many choices. We do have the liberals which are in gov't that have won every year for so long.(not every year i cant remember the number but they never get out) But we have alternative choices. Our alternative choices are now becoming stronger as the work together. I think what america lacks is choice!

Chose neither and start a new party rolling!

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"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono
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Old 08-13-2001, 03:18 AM   #19
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GREEN PARTY BABY!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-13-2001, 03:31 AM   #20
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We need a parliment. I'm sick of two parties.

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Old 08-13-2001, 03:42 AM   #21
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C'mon people, ignore the troll.

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Old 08-13-2001, 03:43 AM   #22
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I'm sick of one Party that no one is invited to except the economic elite; bonoman is right, and what i was trying to say before was that I HATE black & white politics, where everything is either one or the other, luckily however, the bastards have to compromise with each other and they can't do too much damage
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Old 08-13-2001, 03:47 AM   #23
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Well, ignore the troll after this brief response:
Bono is a liberal thinker, both politically and morally.
Edge is a liberal thinker, both politically and morally.
Adam is a liberal thinker, both politically and morally.
Larry is a liberal thiner, both politically and morally.
Many, many people who post to interference are liberal thinkers, both politically and morally.

We all make you sick?

You're attitude here certainly makes ME feel a bit sick.

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Old 08-13-2001, 07:16 AM   #24
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Interesting:
2)Protection of religious freedom (yes, for EVERY religion)
3)Belief in small government
1)Anti-Death Penalty
1)Ethical treatment of animals.

80'sU2isbest, (apart perhaps what you allude to by "small government"), the above could all be consistent with liberal philosophy.

Wether or not you like it, you do espouse SOME liberal values (hope you aren't feeling a bit sick). And there is nothing wrong with that - because we live in the 21st century where these values have become ingrained as values that all humans have.

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Old 08-13-2001, 09:29 AM   #25
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you know, it's funny really. Republicans always talk about how they are the defenders of religion and morality etc. But the only religion they are ever defending is christianity.

I can't remember the last time I saw a conservative trumping the rights of the muslims, orthodox jews, hindus, or any of the other hundred of religions that are practiced in this country.....

No, they just want the ten commandments in every classroom.....

Sorry, I know that's a really sarcastic comment. I'm not attacking you 80'sU2...I just don't get the conservative attitude in this respect.

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[This message has been edited by popkidu2 (edited 08-13-2001).]
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Old 08-13-2001, 09:54 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by popkidu2:

I can't remember the last time I saw a conservative trumping the rights of the muslims, orthodox jews, hindus, or any of the other hundred of religions that are practiced in this country.....
Wel, you don't know me. I do indeed trump the rights of other religions to worship as they please in this country without fear of discrimination.

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Old 08-13-2001, 09:56 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crzy4Bono:
In fact, I would argue that one of your points above, working toward religious freedom and acceptance for all religions is clearly NOT embraced by the right, which tends to be hard-line christian only, with little regard for other belief systems.

I would like an example of this, please.

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Old 08-13-2001, 10:00 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoomerang II:
Interesting:
2)Protection of religious freedom (yes, for EVERY religion)
3)Belief in small government
1)Anti-Death Penalty
1)Ethical treatment of animals.

80'sU2isbest, (apart perhaps what you allude to by "small government"), the above could all be consistent with liberal philosophy.

Wether or not you like it, you do espouse SOME liberal values (hope you aren't feeling a bit sick). And there is nothing wrong with that - because we live in the 21st century where these values have become ingrained as values that all humans have.

Sorry, but small government is NOT a liberal philosophy. And I did admit that ny anti-death penalty and ethical treatment of animals views were basically "liberal" views. You should hear me argue with my friends about hunting. This may start another argument, but I believe it's wrong to hunt if you are able to just buy meat at the store.

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Old 08-13-2001, 10:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crzy4Bono:

4. I'm not going to get into the abortion issue with you here. But I would just question a system that encourages the poor to have unwanted children and then eliminates the social support structure that helps them care for those children. Where are all of the pro-life folks when it is time to raise those kids? Educate them? Clothe them?

I agree with pretty much all you said Crzy4Bono especially your fourth point. I always find it hypocritical when pro-life people only worry about the unborn and not the born. As you pointed out, no one in the pro-life movement seems to worry about those in need AFTER they are born!
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Old 08-13-2001, 11:28 AM   #30
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While I agree that small government is a good idea in theory, the smaller the government, the greater we are controlled by HUGE corporations who are not elected nor looking out for our best interests...I would rather have a bigger government fighting against BIG CORPORATIONS who would have us all working for minimum wage if they could!
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