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Old 02-28-2003, 05:07 PM   #1
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Liberal/Conservative?

Do you think that it's possible for a person to be liberal (ie left of centre) on "political" issues, for instance, economic policy, welfare, education, foreign policy etc, but also be "conservative" on social issues such as abortion, religion, drug and alcohol use, marraige, etc? (Or the opposite - conservative on "political" issues but liberal on "social" issues).

Or do you think the two generally go hand-in-hand and a person who's politically liberal will normally have liberal views on social issues also?
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Old 02-28-2003, 05:36 PM   #2
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I deffinetly think that's possiable... I lean to the right for most of my political views... I'm a registered republican, i agree with the death penalty, i'm against abortion, and i deffinetly support this upcomming war... but i also agree with more leftist slanted things... gun control for example. anyone who needs a semi-automatic rifle to hunt bambi just shouldn't be hunting. heston and his nra junkies can go themselves. and i am all for equal rights for women and "minorities." people should get paid, get highered, or get accepted to colleges based 100% on their ability, not the color of their skin. and on that note, that swings me back over to the conservitive side, 'cause i am against the afirmitive action, quotas, and all that. i don't think colleges should ask for your race or religion on your application. it should be based soley on your achievements. my sister's currently training for the physical exam for the FDNY. she already passed the written exam. if she can pass the physical, which i know she can, i'm all for it. the fdny doesn't lower standards to allow more women to join. but there are some fire departments around the nation that do. i would be outraged if i lived in a community that lowered the standards on the physical part of their exam so they could allow more women to join, just so they can look PC. we're dealing with people's lives here. if my house is burning, i want the best damned people they could get to save my house, and maybe my life. i don't care if that's a man, woman, black, white, green, whatever. but i sure as hell don't want someone who came in with lower standards. i'm rambling now, and i have to go out, so i'll stop now lol. but i think i kinda answered your question... and then some
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Old 02-28-2003, 07:38 PM   #3
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FizzingWhizzbees: Sure it's possible, everybody who uses his brain and makes up is own mind takes the risk not fitting into the predefined patterns anymore.

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Old 02-28-2003, 07:39 PM   #4
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What Klaus said.
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Old 03-01-2003, 03:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
heston and his nra junkies can go themselves.
Haha, yes!

Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
and i am all for equal rights for women and "minorities." people should get paid, get highered, or get accepted to colleges based 100% on their ability, not the color of their skin.
.

Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
and on that note, that swings me back over to the conservitive side, 'cause i am against the afirmitive action, quotas, and all that. i don't think colleges should ask for your race or religion on your application. it should be based soley on your achievements. my sister's currently training for the physical exam for the FDNY. she already passed the written exam. if she can pass the physical, which i know she can, i'm all for it. the fdny doesn't lower standards to allow more women to join. but there are some fire departments around the nation that do. i would be outraged if i lived in a community that lowered the standards on the physical part of their exam so they could allow more women to join, just so they can look PC. we're dealing with people's lives here. if my house is burning, i want the best damned people they could get to save my house, and maybe my life. i don't care if that's a man, woman, black, white, green, whatever. but i sure as hell don't want someone who came in with lower standards.
I totally agree with you.

The majority of my beliefs are liberal ones, but this is one area where I agree with the conservatives.

You took the words right out of my mouth with this issue. .

Angela
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Old 03-01-2003, 09:50 PM   #6
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I totally agree with you.

The majority of my beliefs are liberal ones, but this is one area where I agree with the conservatives.

You took the words right out of my mouth with this issue. .

Angela

Me too!
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Old 03-02-2003, 02:42 PM   #7
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I lean left of center on a lot of issues, especially economic policy, foreign policy, gun control, civil liberties such as freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. But on some (not all) social issues I'm actually quite conservative. For one thing, I believe abortion and assisted suicide are fundamentally wrong on a moral level, just as the death penalty is. I don't see how a person can be against the death penalty and not consider abortion and assisted suicide wrong as well.
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Old 03-02-2003, 03:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's shades
I lean left of center on a lot of issues, especially economic policy, foreign policy, gun control, civil liberties such as freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. But on some (not all) social issues I'm actually quite conservative. For one thing, I believe abortion and assisted suicide are fundamentally wrong on a moral level, just as the death penalty is. I don't see how a person can be against the death penalty and not consider abortion and assisted suicide wrong as well.
I agree with a lot of what you said there. I definitely consider myself left of centre on issues like economics (I'm in favour of progressive taxation, increasing tax on big business, on dividend payments etc), foreign policy (I'm anti-war, in support of increased aid to developing countries), education, health care (I'm in favour of nationalised health care where everyone has access to treatment free of charge) and I'm absolutely in favour of gun control (although it's not so much an issue where I live) and I think any limits on a person's freedom of speech or freedom of religious expression should be kept as minimal as possible (ie I support restricting people's free speech where they're using it to spread hatred, for instance through racism or homophobia, but I don't support it in many other cases).

However, I'm also 'conservative' on some social issues. Like drug and alcohol use. I'm not criticising anyone here who does use drugs, but personally I'm SO strongly against any sort of drugs (even something like marijuana) having seen what they've done to two friends of mine I think people who are caught using drugs should get treatment instead of being sent to prison so I guess some people would consider that to be more liberal than conservative, but I definitely don't support legalising any drugs.

Then again, I'm absolutely anti-death penalty. I think it's fundamentally wrong for the state to have the power to take someone's life. The state should have the right to punish criminals and protect others from criminal's harm, but it should never have the right to kill a person. But, I'm also quite undecided on the question of abortion. Personally I'm pro-life in that I personally I believe abortion is wrong and wouldn't ever have an abortion. However, I still don't think that means I should support the state legislating against abortion, there may be situations in which abortion is an absolute last resort for a woman, and I don't think anyone has a right to restrict access to abortion in all cases without knowing the details of all those cases. So I have some contradictions on that issue.

So having ranted for quite a while, I think I've answered my own question: yes you can be liberal on political questions and also conservative on social ones. No contradictions
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Old 03-02-2003, 04:10 PM   #9
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Re: Liberal/Conservative?

Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Do you think that it's possible for a person to be liberal (ie left of centre) on "political" issues, for instance, economic policy, welfare, education, foreign policy etc, but also be "conservative" on social issues such as abortion, religion, drug and alcohol use, marraige, etc? (Or the opposite - conservative on "political" issues but liberal on "social" issues).

Or do you think the two generally go hand-in-hand and a person who's politically liberal will normally have liberal views on social issues also?
The religious political parties in The Netherlands have generally 'leftist' ideas concerning welfare, economy etc (at least, that's what they tell us ) , and a 'rightwing' view on things as abortion, marriage, euthanasia etc.
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Old 03-02-2003, 04:38 PM   #10
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even almost all of the dutch 'left parties' are right of centre when it concerns the economy
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Old 03-02-2003, 04:49 PM   #11
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II'm a lefty right mix too. As a Christian I consider that faith as one which is fradically socialy leftwing while at the same time being morally conservative against society standards as they stand now. The call for the protectionof the poor, the sick, the elderly, and the outcast is the central message of the gospel not the me first BS of Capitalism. I'll never understand how Christianty and Capitalism evr ended up in this cheery hand in hand relationship. At the same time there is a lot of stuff in Christian doctine (orthodox view here) that is really conservative compared to a lot of modern western mores. That's my personal view on my faith. I'm sure others will have other opinions.

As I said above I'm ravingly anti-Capitalist and I can say without anydoubt in my mind that it is the leading casue for most of the suffering in the world today. I'm pro-life in all forms (the DP, and abortion are murder) but with regards to abortions I'm against any laws prohibiting them because I am resolutely for total separation of church and state. I am for doctors having to tell people all the facts which they don't. I'm against war except as a lasst option and I'm against imperialsim in all its forms, economic, political or otherwise. The rest of the world doesn't need a father or a big brother. Getting back to criminal law, I'm for much tougher prison sentances and a rewriting of the law to provide fewer loop holes while at the same time having more accountability for police when they screw up or play politics. Guns are wank and no one needs them we should be like most of Europe and outlaw them outright and we'll see one heck of a lot less crime, not a limited as in Europe as it will take decades to get rid of them all nad there are other societal problems which lead to more violence over here. Fairer immigration. Open borders but when you get deported you're gone not like this shite about getting deported three or four times. I consider all sexual relations outside of marriage or a permanent monagamous relationship to be morally wrong but as I mentioned earlier I'm fully against the state trying to be moral police so full rights for everybody including marriage. I say separate relgious marraige from legal marraige while we're at it. Classifing people based on sexual orientation is wank. Divorce is wrong but is in some cases necessesary especially when abuse is involed or fighting is harming children. I never see things in balck and white as there is no such thing as either in this world. By my faith there is only one absolute good and nothing in this world nothing comes close to Him. There is only the best choice in the situation and the worst. SO basically my lefts and rights cancel out more or less leaving me a bit left of center by a vector sum I suppose.
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