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Old 04-11-2006, 03:00 PM   #46
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Originally posted by Irvine511

erm, excuse me?

please point this out.
It would take too long to drag out all your posts on the evils of Christianity.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

i simply said that the US and Canada are different places, and the creeds "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is a different mindset than "peace, order, and good government."
Oh I know, it was actually this previous comment that bugged me...

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scapegoating, and assigning characteristics of a group to individuals because it serves your own purposes.

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Originally posted by Irvine511

and, please, is there anything less productive than a "my country is better than your country" pissing match?
Nope, which is why I never go there. Yet here you are ranting about comparisons.
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:37 PM   #47
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Originally posted by AliEnvy


It would take too long to drag out all your posts on the evils of Christianity.



wow.

there are only so many qualifiers one can attach before it becomes impossible to discern the original intent.

i go to impossible lengths, i bend over backwards (something people are certainly not willing to do in return) to distinguish between Christianity and politicized right wing evangelical whatever-have-you Christianity (more accurately described as Christianism) that currently enjoys a prime seat the the table of Republican politics.

if you're not even willing to read my posts then it's really not worth my time to pay any attention to yours.



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Nope, which is why I never go there. Yet here you are ranting about comparisons.

one can make valid comparisons between countries without any sort of value judgement implied.

it is a perfectly valid comparison to say that Toronto is more diverse (by a certain set of standards) than New York.

it is perfeclty valid comparison to say that the United States is a more diverse society than Australia.

in no way is any sort of judgement implied, thusly removing it from any notions of what is and what is not the "better" society.
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:43 PM   #48
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Is diversity automatically a good thing?
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:55 PM   #49
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Originally posted by Irvine511

there are only so many qualifiers one can attach before it becomes impossible to discern the original intent.
You can attach any qualifiers (assumptions) as you wish.

My only intent was to point out that you use generalizations and stereotypes as well as everyone else. I didn't originally say you made value judgements. Generally you don't, occasionally you do...we all do.

You can, on the other hand, be incredibly indignant and condescending when this is pointed out.

I can tread arrogance myself when pushed but I also won't deny it.
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:09 PM   #50
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Originally posted by AliEnvy
My only intent was to point out that you use generalizations and stereotypes as well as everyone else. I didn't originally say you made value judgements. Generally you don't, occasionally you do...we all do.

You can, on the other hand, be incredibly indignant and condescending when this is pointed out.




and the point of this is ...
and this is relevant to the discussion how ...

you're right, it is impossible to speak without invoking some sort of generalizations and/or stereotypes; however, some generalizations (the ones back up by facts and statistics as well as thoughtful experience) are better than others.
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:29 PM   #51
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Originally posted by Irvine511

and the point of this is ...
and this is relevant to the discussion how
I suppose because this comment of yours came from out of left field in this thread when no one was making any such claims or comparisons, nor have I seen anything remotely resembling that in FYM since I've been more regularly participating.

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i also find it a little bit strange when Canadians, who will go to great lengths to explain that they are not "America lite" or "America, Colder," and then will chastize the US for not having the same values, priorities, and political system as Canada.
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however, some generalizations (the ones back up by facts and statistics as well as thoughtful experience) are better than others.
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:38 PM   #52
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[q]i also find it a little bit strange when Canadians, who will go to great lengths to explain that they are not "America lite" or "America, Colder," and then will chastize the US for not having the same values, priorities, and political system as Canada.[/q]


well, this is based on experience, having a best friend who's mother is Canadian, having traveled in Canada with them for 2 weeks, having traveled in Europe and meeting Canadians and seeing all the flags sewn onto every imaginable piece of clothing ... it's often the same discussion that i felt was reflected in the (respectful) exchange of posts between myself and anitram: Canadians don't want to be Americans, but Americans should be more like Canadians.

there just seems to me to be a contradiction there. it's like -- so what if America did start to behave more like Canada? would Canada want that?

but i think it's best to let this rest for now, though i think Canadian identity-creation is a very interesting topic.
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