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Old 12-22-2004, 03:22 PM   #46
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So you believe this is a crusade? Then why are we stopping in Iraq? Why aren't we taking over the holy land?

Calling someone a criminal does not make it so. Give specific charges and please, references, so that we can have a discussion.

And, welcome back
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:08 PM   #47
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Originally posted by Zoomerang96
mac, why is it everytime someone calls bush a criminal, his supporters fail to answer the question but rather immediately try and change the subject?
Maybe you need to explain WHY? And all this crap about comparing Bush to Hitler is the stupidest thing to come out of the left. Who says I support "holy crusades?" What a mess. I have absolutely no objection to taking Saddam out of power, as you see the future in Iraq would have been in the hands of Qusay Hussein, an even greater barbarian. I question the war as well, but I'm not going to give up having faith in my country. Saddam had to go for the sake of humanity. Hussein has something in common with you, my friend - he refers to Bush as a criminal. Please elaborate on your statements without referring to book burning and crusades that occured hundreds of years back. Instead, hit me with some facts.
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:35 PM   #48
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The new investigations seem to indicate that the Iranians acrually were the ones to gas the Kurds.
This is a falsehood that has been perpetuated by some of the hard left blogs over the past few years, the source for this one seems to be an article by Stephen Pelletiere in the NYT which outlined that Iran was responsible despite the vast ammounts of evidence to the contrary. Turning a blind eye to genocide for the "greater good" is wrong, it was wrong when the US maintained trade with Saddam after the incident and it is wrong when you do it today.

The fact that you have overlooked HRW and their in depth investigation into the Anfal campaign and Ali Hassan al-Majids role in it utterly disgusts me. You are right now an apologist for Saddam Hussein and are attempting to cloud the facts with your politically motivated historical revisionism. How can you demand truth from your political leaders one minute and the next be lying for Saddam?

The Stephen C. Pelletiere is here: link

A Slate article about the revisionists: here

The evidence of the atrocity being comitted by Iraq: here
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Old 12-22-2004, 10:38 PM   #49
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I was wondering about that one too. No sources were used to back it up, and I should have asked for them.
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:24 AM   #50
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I am sure that we will get sources, or a tirade against me being worse because I am "pro-war" or that the blood is still on America's hands because it didn't do anything at the time - there is no way to win these arguments, I am moral scum because I happen to think that deposing Saddam was the wiser choice and will be seen as an important part in the wider war against theofascism, opening up a second front.
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:23 AM   #51
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Theofacism is exactly what the neocons in washington want and are trying hard to achieve.
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:25 AM   #52
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Really, please enlighten us upon what the neocons are trying to achieve on the religiousity front?

You lay the allegations out there against these vague and sinister "neocons" - usually the named ones are exculsively Jewish - who want to rule the world. The label itself "neocon" has a certain scaryness to it - and they are using Bush like a puppet no doubt, and then Karl Rove must be in on it and maybe diebold.

I think that the term neocon is a label for anybody who dares to suggest that American power can be a force for good in the world. Anybody foolish enough to utter that freedom guarantees true and just peace for all time. I think the list should include the likes of Lincoln, Truman and JFK as they are cut from the same cloth.
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Old 12-23-2004, 07:24 AM   #53
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I think that the term neocon is a label for anybody who dares to suggest that American power can be a force for good in the world. Anybody foolish enough to utter that freedom guarantees true and just peace for all time. I think the list should include the likes of Lincoln, Truman and JFK as they are cut from the same cloth.
That is just bullshit.
I don't believe for an instant that the Bush admin, for instance Cheney think they are acting in a way that puts "good" as a reason for invading Iraq. Hedegemony in a rapidly depleting available energy sources world is much more their reason. While many are Jewish the hawks in the whitehouse are not exclusively so. Read the letter to Clinton from PNAC.
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Old 12-23-2004, 07:28 AM   #54
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Whatever is hedegemony and can you please answer my inquiry about the neocons supposed religious agenda and your allusion to historical revisionism.
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Old 12-23-2004, 08:00 AM   #55
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My typing sucks.
Hegemony -The predominant influence, as of a state, region, or group, over another or others.
n : the domination of one state over its allies

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?...tion&x=27&y=14

You can read it from the left or right. I think they are using religion as a way to maintain dominance of the government, but are not truly religious themselves. Historical revisionism?
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Old 12-23-2004, 08:05 AM   #56
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She is using her son ( who volunteered to serve and die if need be for his country ) as a political tool. She must blame someone to alieve her guilt and grief. Whether you agree with the Bush Doctrine or not, it should be clear to all that "war is hell" ( General William Sherman ) and in todays America it is hell on everyone - even Bush.
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Old 12-23-2004, 08:06 AM   #57
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Iran being responsible for gassing the Kurds at Halabja?
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:20 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Maybe you need to explain WHY? And all this crap about comparing Bush to Hitler is the stupidest thing to come out of the left. Who says I support "holy crusades?" What a mess. I have absolutely no objection to taking Saddam out of power, as you see the future in Iraq would have been in the hands of Qusay Hussein, an even greater barbarian. I question the war as well, but I'm not going to give up having faith in my country. Saddam had to go for the sake of humanity. Hussein has something in common with you, my friend - he refers to Bush as a criminal. Please elaborate on your statements without referring to book burning and crusades that occured hundreds of years back. Instead, hit me with some facts.
i hope i don't forget, but when i come back home later i'm gonna absolutely destroy this arguement.
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:17 PM   #59
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Twisted logic

"By the way, George, how many more innocent Iraqis are your policies going to kill before you convince them that you are better than Saddam? How many more of their cities are you going to level before you consider that they are liberated? If you really had any moral values, or if you were an honorable man at all you would resign. My son was a man who had high moral values and true courage."


I agree.... When did it become morally permissible to kill innocents to prevent/avenge the murder of innocents?...
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:42 PM   #60
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I'm reading things like "holy crusades" "theofascism" and "book burning" on this thread and I just have to laugh.So over the top!

I hear this stuff and I automatically exclude that person from a rational debate.

Some advice: Don't mischaracterize your opponent. Study him, understand him, then debate. The bush demonizers lot the election for y'all. Not that I'm complaing, mind you. Keep thinking that way
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