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Old 09-27-2005, 07:09 PM   #61
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's "understaaa

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Who said give them a better life than they had?
Nobody would announce it quite that blatantly, but if we don't think rationally, that's what might end up happening.
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:10 PM   #62
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Nobody would announce it quite that blatantly, but if we don't think rationally, that's what might end up happening.
Please. Do you even read your own posts?
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:11 PM   #63
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's "un

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Please. Do you even read your own posts?
Yes.
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:18 PM   #64
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
It seems you wouldn't know the difference between being hateful and being cautious. Logic 101: If I was a bubble boy, I wouldn't pass gas. Your question about "meeting" detainees is irrelevant beyond my point. My point is that they are there for a reason. They are accused war criminals.
None of which are convicted therefore your point is moot. I'm just saying not everyone in there how you've painted them.
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

So in your view, we just saw these people, decided we didn't like them, and threw them in the pen, or they had no other choice but to become terrorists. I would support putting them on trial, but a fast and speedy trial.
Well of course they need a trial, no shit. But how can you attest for how many we had detained and then let go? How DID we obtain these men? We're they carrying there membership card? Intelligence?(oh and was that the same intelligence that told us exactly where the WMDs were) Maybe some were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

With as many problems as this war has had and our intelligence agencies have had you can't possible think 100% of the detainees were without doubt guilty?
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:20 PM   #65
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Yes.
Ok then explain to me how "not thinking rationally" how this would end up happening?
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:26 PM   #66
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's "un

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
None of which are convicted therefore your point is moot. I'm just saying not everyone in there how you've painted them.
"Hate" is a strong word, I'd expect to see a stronger argument to balance your rhetoric.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Well of course they need a trial, no shit. But how can you attest for how many we had detained and then let go? How DID we obtain these men? We're they carrying there membership card? Intelligence?(oh and was that the same intelligence that told us exactly where the WMDs were) Maybe some were in the wrong place at the wrong time?
I don't believe that every last one of them is guilty, which is why trials would be necessary. However, I don't think the majority of them were "at the wrong place at the wrong time."

You might want to count your cards before you make partisan references like that about the WMDs.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:35 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Ok then explain to me how "not thinking rationally" how this would end up happening?
Poverty, unemployment, dirty streets, and scarce medical supplies are a part of every day life in Iraq. We wouldn't want them to know if, say, we fed prisoners three or more times a day all prepared to meet their religious demands. It's scary to think that some may actually want to be captured as war criminals if we pamper them too much.
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:40 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
"Hate" is a strong word, I'd expect to see a stronger argument to balance your rhetoric.
How is it rhetoric?

You continually called them:
Quote:
people who continually attempt to establish a culture of death amongst our own societies?
Quote:
the devil
and then painted them all as:
Quote:
don't want our forgiveness. They want our heads
Sounds hateful to me, but maybe that's love in your household.



Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

You might want to count your cards before you make partisan references like that about the WMDs.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998
Yeah I know exactly who believed it, still doesn't make it right, and if we're still holding detainees based on this type of intelligence, it's fucking wrong. Nothing partisan about it. Our intelligence agencies have been sub par for many administrations. So I'm not sure what your point is?
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:43 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Poverty, unemployment, dirty streets, and scarce medical supplies are a part of every day life in Iraq. We wouldn't want them to know if, say, we fed prisoners three or more times a day all prepared to meet their religious demands.
Becareful now, I thought poverty had nothing to do with it?

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

It's scary to think that some may actually want to be captured as war criminals if we pamper them too much.
Yeah I'm sure it's a blast.
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:27 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Sounds hateful to me, but maybe that's love in your household.
It's not hateful. It's true.
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:37 PM   #71
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Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk


It's not hateful. It's true.
Oh so you've talked to all of them? Not one got forced into it, not one only did it to get out of poverty, not one did it because they have nothing better to live for, and not one of those detainees was detained wrongfully, not one? They're all just the devil. I think you may want to avoid talking about morals anymore in this forum, for you've lost all credibility.

Wow well I'm glad the Reps have such talented mind readers voting for them.
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Old 10-02-2005, 01:48 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Oh so you've talked to all of them? Not one got forced into it, not one only did it to get out of poverty, not one did it because they have nothing better to live for, and not one of those detainees was detained wrongfully, not one? They're all just the devil. I think you may want to avoid talking about morals anymore in this forum, for you've lost all credibility.

Wow well I'm glad the Reps have such talented mind readers voting for them.
Oh boo hoo. Let's all be concerned for the exact reasons that every individual terrorist wants to kill innocent people. I guess with you it's not enough to know that they want to kill.

So is it an excuse to say "I was forced into becoming a terrorist."? Sure, someone could say no and not become a terrorist. They might be killed for it. But why bother with standing up to pressure when they could be excused by people like you?

"nothing better to live for" I'm sure becoming a terrorist is such a great ambition. Oh no, let's not have them actually try to better themselves. Terrorism is a great way to give meaning to one's life.

I've lost all morals you say? So there's a universal set of morals that I have somehow lost? Or have I just lost your morals?
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Old 10-02-2005, 03:19 PM   #73
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Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk


Oh boo hoo. Let's all be concerned for the exact reasons that every individual terrorist wants to kill innocent people. I guess with you it's not enough to know that they want to kill.

So is it an excuse to say "I was forced into becoming a terrorist."? Sure, someone could say no and not become a terrorist. They might be killed for it. But why bother with standing up to pressure when they could be excused by people like you?

"nothing better to live for" I'm sure becoming a terrorist is such a great ambition. Oh no, let's not have them actually try to better themselves. Terrorism is a great way to give meaning to one's life.

I've lost all morals you say? So there's a universal set of morals that I have somehow lost? Or have I just lost your morals?
Wow you completely missed the point.

You said it's OK to label them the devil, that it's "true". My point is that not all join the movement out of hatred and a desire to kill, some have no other means to put food on the table.

As for the moral thing, I find it interesting that you use your interpretation of biblical ideas to justify "that some states still have morals" by not allowing homosexuals to marry. But you completely ignore the teachings of love your enemy. You've made it clear that it's OK to hate and we shouldn't bother trying to understand why they do the things they do. Seems hypocritical.
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Old 10-15-2005, 02:56 AM   #74
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Here's my terrorist rant:

First off, we aren't labeling the true problem by deeming it as terrorism. The way we associate Islam with terrorism and demonize them really just encourages the problem. This has nothing to do with saying what terrorists do are wrong or not. It is. Of course their actions are problems. But these problems have many causes.....

The problems begin by identifying the disenfranchisement Muslims currently face. They follow the Koran, the only holy book that details moral and public policy. Many believe in the idea of a true Islamic state. There have been Islamic States. Ones that have even flourished. The problem has been their transition into the 20th Century as the Ottoman Empire disintegrated.

Though most of them believe in the idea of a true Islamic state, they gave secular rulers a shot. It hasn't worked out. All it did was create dictatorships and the people were brought down to the lowest living standards. Right now we see in Muslims is their impatience with secular rulers. They are throwing their lot with Revolutionary Muslims (those who believe in terrorism). Its actually understandable. Here are a people who do believe religion interlocks with public policy. The revolutionary movement is an interpretation of the Koran. Many different interpretations exist. There are many sects of Islam.

All Muslims really want is a normal life. They feel left out that they have a rich culture in ideas but yet have for the most part remained poor the last 100 years. Frustation is setting in and these terrible parts that live in all societies are now creeping into theirs. And they do believe in democracy. They not believing is a complete myth. They want people to have the power. Its just its structure is religious. Their problem is they have been taught to equate democracy with Western democracy and just find disgrace because of cultural differences. I think we have to understand they are just a more conservative culture.

What we need is to really push to create good governments that are governments run by the people, not puppet ones. Instead, as the petroleum crisis hits full blast, we are shelling money to Saudia Arabia and thus allowing a country of dictatorship and terrorist influence to be that region's dominant country. I read a report that says the only country that competes with Saudia Arabia in Oil production for the region is Syria which only has enough oil to save itself. And that won't last forever. While we fight terrorism, we also help it by selling ourselves to Saudia Arabia. Its a structure in Washington that goes beyond just the Bush administration. He's hardly to blame. This is how its always been almost.

Its just weird seeing everyone post and giving comments that paint Muslims as some alien culture who prolly do all sorts of insane things. For belief, Christianity and Islam are 95% similiar. I also know that many Christians there laugh at Western intepretations of Christianity. Differences can be bridged or at least understood.

I understand I'm generalizing, but sometimes these things need to be reinforced.
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:03 PM   #75
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Richard Gere is a blithering IDIOT.
Not because he seeks compassion for the CIA Trained "terrorists" BUT,because his guru is ALSO a CIA benificiary.
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