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Old 09-17-2005, 05:35 PM   #31
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


And you have become just as consumed in your hatred for them. That's just as dangerous. That's exactly what Christ was talking about.
If you think that hating terrorists and terrorism is dangerous and wrong, then you belong in their midst.
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Old 09-17-2005, 05:53 PM   #32
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Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk


If you think that hating terrorists and terrorism is dangerous and wrong, then you belong in their midst.
See now you are twisting words. Shameful. No where did I say I don't hate terrorism. A weapon of the conservatives, you're with us or against us. You got sucked in hook line and sinker.

But yes hating anyone is dangerous, even your enemy. So I guess Christ and I will be in their midst.
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Old 09-17-2005, 05:59 PM   #33
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Apparently shooting, bombing and attacking the terrorists isn't helping or stopping them.
Bombing for Peace is like Fucking for Virginity.
Keep on invading countries.
Keep kicking the beehive and then wonder why you got stung.
Where I went to school we took redeneck undeducated fools and tried to better them not put them in charge.
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Old 09-17-2005, 06:13 PM   #34
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Where I went to school we took redeneck undeducated fools and tried to better them not put them in charge.
This was uncalled for.....
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Old 09-17-2005, 06:22 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


See now you are twisting words. Shameful. No where did I say I don't hate terrorism. A weapon of the conservatives, you're with us or against us. You got sucked in hook line and sinker.
Oh yes, I may have been sucked in by the truth..at least I'm not fooling myself into thinking that not hating terrorists gets me anywhere. It accomplishes nothing. While channeling my hatred for terrorists can rid the world of them, your simperings about their inner self remains inert and worthless.
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Old 09-17-2005, 06:33 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk

While channeling my hatred for terrorists can rid the world of them, your simperings about their inner self remains inert and worthless.
But it won't. You will never rid this world of terrorism this way. It's like killing ants. You will never rid your yard of anthills unless you destroy the queen. You can kill each ant one by one, but they'll migrate build other mounds and keep producing. But if you destroy the queen the anthills dissappear. You will never destroy terrorism this way, you'll just force them into different parts of the world. You have to destroy the root of the problem.

And I'm not sure where you saw any simperings of inner selves in here, for I never made any mention of it.
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Old 09-17-2005, 10:26 PM   #37
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But it won't. You will never rid this world of terrorism this way. It's like killing ants. You will never rid your yard of anthills unless you destroy the queen. You can kill each ant one by one, but they'll migrate build other mounds and keep producing. But if you destroy the queen the anthills dissappear. You will never destroy terrorism this way, you'll just force them into different parts of the world. You have to destroy the root of the problem.

And I'm not sure where you saw any simperings of inner selves in here, for I never made any mention of it.
Terrorism may not be completely destroyed, but my approach sure as hell combats it better than your's. The root cause is simple, the terrorists are taught to hate from a young age. We have no control over what they are taught by their elders. At the moment fighting the terrorists themselves is the best course.

If they weren't raised to be hateful, then there would hardly be any terrorism. If you have a solution to that, I'd like to hear it.
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Old 09-17-2005, 10:58 PM   #38
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Islamism is the problem, it is the ideology, the restoration of the caliphate the extermination of the Jews and the subjegation of the unbelievers is all part of that. The means to that end now is to bring about more allied Islamist regimes around the world ~ Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would be the two most dangerous countries to fall. Terrorism is the manifestation of this movement.

Identify the enemy, Islamism. Fight said enemy through use of both hard and soft power and solve the problem that drives wider support for their cause which is autocratic government in the Middle East.

Fighting against terror does not create more terrorists, killing jihadists does not make more jihadists, stepping back and allowing the swamp of despotism to fester discontent among the populace without other means of dissent than violence is the driving force here. Look at who the international terrorists of the world are, we are looking at wealthy men, who have the economic means to travel the world, the education to inflict harm and the ideological zeal that is only afforded by the luxury of not living in abject poverty. The fiction is that the terrorists of the world are the poor and the downtrodden; just look at the recent Harvard study of terrorist attacks around the globe by Alberto Abadie simply did not find such a link, rather factors of political freedom, ethnic conflict and geography played significant roles.

Iraq and Afghanistan will be means to an end in defeating terror not just because a lot of nihilists, fascists and jihadists are killed ~ but because the establishment of democratic society and respect for individual liberty is the only way to prevent the toppling of these already ambiguously hostile governments with more dangerous ones. The increase in terror in both of those countries following the fall of Saddams regime and the Taliban is to be expected; it is reactionary, a concerted effort to subvert and topple elected governments and bring about the types of chaos and sectarian violence from which they can be afforded sanctuary. If they fail to accomplish this before the national democratic governments become entrenched then the gains of terror will be lost and the number of attacks will also decrease. This transitional fluctuation in terror is the direct result of moving towards freer governments.

Don't try to reason with them or contemplate what we can do to appease the anger of jihadists ~ that will not solve any problems, granting concessions will only aid their cause and encourage more violence. Fight them on every front and expose them for what they really are; don't fall into the trap of having your governments policies dictated to by Islamist proxies.
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Old 09-18-2005, 04:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk


The root cause is simple, the terrorists are taught to hate from a young age. We have no control over what they are taught by their elders. At the moment fighting the terrorists themselves is the best course.

If they weren't raised to be hateful, then there would hardly be any terrorism. If you have a solution to that, I'd like to hear it.
Not all are raised that way. In fact most are recruited during adolesense. Most recruits are poor uneducated men who have very little here on earth so they fall for promises of being rewarded in the afterlife.

If you work on the vast differences of the distribution of wealth, education, and at the same time work with other Muslim leaders to be outspoken about those that distort their religion than we'd be getting somewhere in disolving the root problem.

But it's much easier to hate and bomb. And those will be judged later.
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Old 09-18-2005, 04:43 PM   #40
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Not all are raised that way. In fact most are recruited during adolesense. Most recruits are poor uneducated men who have very little here on earth so they fall for promises of being rewarded in the afterlife.

If you work on the vast differences of the distribution of wealth, education, and at the same time work with other Muslim leaders to be outspoken about those that distort their religion than we'd be getting somewhere in disolving the root problem.

But it's much easier to hate and bomb. And those will be judged later.
I do see your point there. And while it is important to make sure that Muslim leaders report and discourage those that would spread extremism, fighting those that are extremists with military force is of equal importance too.
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Old 09-18-2005, 07:45 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Not all are raised that way. In fact most are recruited during adolesense. Most recruits are poor uneducated men who have very little here on earth so they fall for promises of being rewarded in the afterlife.

If you work on the vast differences of the distribution of wealth, education, and at the same time work with other Muslim leaders to be outspoken about those that distort their religion than we'd be getting somewhere in disolving the root problem.

But it's much easier to hate and bomb. And those will be judged later.
What are you using to support these assertions. Why is it that PLO Arab bombers have a higher mean wealth than average PLO Arabs? Why is it that international terrorists are middle class to wealthy? Which terrorists are you talking about.
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Old 09-18-2005, 08:05 PM   #42
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Why is it that international terrorists are middle class to wealthy?


The average insurgent, the suicidal bombers are not middle class to wealthy. The leaders of these groups yes but the majority of recruits, no.
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Old 09-18-2005, 08:17 PM   #43
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




The average insurgent, the suicidal bombers are not middle class to wealthy. The leaders of these groups yes but the majority of recruits, no.
You are talking about insurgency not international terrorism. Average insurgent/militiamen etc. may not be wealthy, I agree with that but I would not count every fighter with a kalashnikov as a terrorist. Suicide bombers drawn from PLO Arab populations come from generally wealthier families than most ~ and there is a significant religious component in that particular case.

And I stand by my assertions of international terrorists especially. The ones who represent an existential threat. They are not driven by poverty and it is daft to believe that by making the world a fairer place that their will to dominate will be quenched.
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Old 09-18-2005, 08:34 PM   #44
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[B}
And I stand by my assertions of international terrorists especially. The ones who represent an existential threat. They are not driven by poverty and it is daft to believe that by making the world a fairer place that their will to dominate will be quenched. [/B]
Maybe if we stop; like; I dont know; maybe pissing people off around the world; then maybe they won't want to kill us so much? Somehow I don't think carpet bombing their kids is the correct solution.
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Old 09-18-2005, 08:45 PM   #45
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Carpet bombing who's kids? Ramzi Yousef's kids, Hambali's kids, Khalid Sheik Mohammed's kids, Zarqawi's kids, Mohammed Atta's kids, Osama bin Ladens kids?

We piss them off by our very existence, as an atheist who freely mocks the idea that an omnipitent God exists I am an insult too their God. As a society the west is too permissive; our women unveiled and promiscuous. Our current foreign policies are really pissing them off because they threaten them. Democracy goes against allah's will ergo it is righteous to them to execute every potential voter. That attitude will not get them far in democracy ~ especially ones where women, gays and religious minorities are allowed to vote.

I am not going to sit back and accept that we deserve to be punished for the sins of others by proxy victims who worship death.

Listen to what these people are saying, don't just project pet causes as motivation because when it comes to matters of faith rationalism and reason have nothing to do with it.
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