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Old 01-10-2005, 11:20 PM   #31
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Does the rape that we're talking about include or exclude children?

Because, I my opinion, anyone who commits paedophelia deserves to spend the rest of their life rotting away in prison.

The same for rapists.

I've heard of research done by psychiatrists and psychologists that show pretty hard and conclusive evidence that paedophiles never rehabilitate. Having barstards like that on the loose in society in just wrong.

There was a woman in Australia just recently who was asleep on her couch, in her own home, who was raped by a man who broke through her window.

The judge, who by the way was male, concluded that the man looked as though he would make a good reajustment to society and COMMENDED him on his good behaviour in jail time already served. He was let off on a SUSPENDED SENTENCE.

The woman was left with nothing but a huge court and lawyers fee and a whole lot of heartache.

There was no JUSTICE for that woman.
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Old 01-10-2005, 11:36 PM   #32
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If there was absolute, positive proof that these men (in some cases, women) are guilty, I would agree with you. I strongly believe in protecting the innocent, but if there was a way to prove that every single rape case had the proper verdict, I would agree with you.
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Old 01-11-2005, 02:21 AM   #33
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Re: Re: Let's talk about SEX...

Quote:
Originally posted by dandy
the problem lies in the fact that people continue to equate rape with sex, rather than as a power trip. rape has nothing to do with passion or attraction or affection. it's the use of the penis as a weapon in the ultimate expression of mysogyny.
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Old 01-11-2005, 02:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I think that the punishment should fit the crime, but in the case that the defendant is innocent, I would HATE to strip his rights and force him to carry out a significant portion of his life behind bars for nothing. Strict sentences could probably reduce the amount of rapes, but they are highly unjust to those who are wrongfully convicted. We should always keep those in mind.
So maybe we should reduce sentences for murder since we'd HATE to see an innocent person sent to prison for a crime he didn't commit. You could apply your logic ('I'd hate to seen an innocent person punished harshly, so let's make sentences more lenient') to any crime.
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Old 01-11-2005, 03:33 AM   #35
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Let me tell you a little secret Macfistowannabe, and I dont mean to be partonising though I will probably fail - women who are raped feel like they have been murdered, and left to live. It's very difficult to imagine how that feels if you have thankfully never experienced it. But this is one of the biggest reasons why women do not report these crimes soon enough so that medical examinations can perform the regulatory D & C, and also obtain samples for use in DNA testing and the resulting criminal action. There is evidence left all over a woman's body after an assault. If emotion could be switched off, rape would be as open and shut as your garden variety murder. But unfortunately, a petrified woman is not always so keen to rush straight off to the police to be escorted to trhe nearest hospital for an even further invasive procedure just to catch the fuck who committed it.

I appreciate where you are coming from, but you must understand that these crimes can be proven in a black and white hypothetical situation, but human emotion and social stigmas too often prevent it. The problem lies not with enough proof, but with the after care and treatment of anyone who has gone through such an ordeal. It's a horribly big ask to get them to to take the next step. And that's only in the following 24 hours. We haven't even touched on the brutal unfairness of the legal system in hearing rape cases.
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:02 AM   #36
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if only men and women could switch roles to understand where the other person is coming from, this debate would probably be very different.
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:17 AM   #37
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If found guilty, cut it off. He won't do it again.

i'd rather not live in the 14th century, thank you.
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Old 01-11-2005, 07:08 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
So maybe we should reduce sentences for murder since we'd HATE to see an innocent person sent to prison for a crime he didn't commit. You could apply your logic ('I'd hate to seen an innocent person punished harshly, so let's make sentences more lenient') to any crime.
First off, I didn't say they should be more lenient. I said that rape sentences shouldn't equal a murder sentence. I agree with your point on reducing sentences for murder in general, especially if it is ONE murder. Repeated murderers and rapists should get a harsh sentence, no doubt about it. Of course I've heard the people talk who believe that if a man is convicted of a single rape, he should be put to death. I have an issue with that concept, because many times, we never know the truth about the matter. We assume this accused fellow is guilty from day one. All kinds of cases have been dropped for rape, sexual assault, and other crimes along these lines. I have to wonder why they were dropped, don't we all?

Funny how some of you assume I'm a hardcore death penalty supporter. I definately question the justice of it, and it's not always justified. Innocent people are executed for ONE murder case, and the odds of them being falsely convicted a second time around are unlikely, and this concept would reduce the number of executions significantly. I totally feel for the victim, and try my best to understand the kind of emotional trauma and confusion they endure. A lot of times, it's severe enough for the victim to forget important details. At the same time, nobody wants an innocent person to serve sentences for crimes they do not commit. We SHOULD put that logic toward ANY crime, and hope there is absolute proof that they are guilty of it if they get convicted.
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Old 01-11-2005, 07:34 AM   #39
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Re: Re: Re: Let's talk about SEX...

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

First of all be careful how you quote, that was not my line it was the article's. Just wanted to clear that up.
i should have been clear in quoting that it was the article's words, not yours. thanks for calling attention to that.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Secondly rape is not ALWAYS men on women. It can be men on men. It can be women on men(although the percentages are pretty small). Or women on women(although I've never seen a documented case). So be careful how you define rape.
it could be argued that when men rape men, it's still an act of mysogyny. the ultimate act of humiliating another man by 'feminizing' him, again, in a brutal act of violence (like in prison, turning someone into his *bitch*). i don't know that there's been much research done into the area of male rape--i imagine societal taboos keep many raped males silent (for different reasons that women remain largely silent).

(before anyone gets upset about the twisted correlation between the last paragraph and anal sex, please remember that sex between two consenting adults is based on attraction, desire, affection, etc. and has no correlation whatsoever to rape.)

women rapists account for less than 1% of rapes. my guess is that their actions are a backlash against the mysogyny inherent in our society. not that this excuses their actions in any way. essentially, it's the same thing, only with reversed gender roles. (is there a term for hatred of men? )

ultimately, rape is an act of hatred, intended to humiliate and dehumanize another person, whether the person is male or female. maybe this is a better definition, because it gets to the core of the issue without calling up gender politics.
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Old 01-11-2005, 07:43 AM   #40
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's talk about SEX...

Quote:
Originally posted by dandy
ultimately, rape is an act of hatred, intended to humiliate and dehumanize another person, whether the person is male or female. maybe this is a better definition, because it gets to the core of the issue without calling up gender politics.
Very true. Rapes are not committed for sexual pleasure, they are committed to dehumanize others.
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Old 01-11-2005, 03:04 PM   #41
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's talk about SEX...

Quote:
Originally posted by dandy


i should have been clear in quoting that it was the article's words, not yours. thanks for calling attention to that.
Thanks, I wasn't upset I just wanted to clarify.

Quote:
Originally posted by dandy


it could be argued that when men rape men, it's still an act of mysogyny. the ultimate act of humiliating another man by 'feminizing' him, again, in a brutal act of violence (like in prison, turning someone into his *bitch*). i don't know that there's been much research done into the area of male rape--i imagine societal taboos keep many raped males silent (for different reasons that women remain largely silent).

(before anyone gets upset about the twisted correlation between the last paragraph and anal sex, please remember that sex between two consenting adults is based on attraction, desire, affection, etc. and has no correlation whatsoever to rape.)

women rapists account for less than 1% of rapes. my guess is that their actions are a backlash against the mysogyny inherent in our society. not that this excuses their actions in any way. essentially, it's the same thing, only with reversed gender roles. (is there a term for hatred of men? )
I agree with most of this.
Quote:
Originally posted by dandy

ultimately, rape is an act of hatred, intended to humiliate and dehumanize another person, whether the person is male or female. maybe this is a better definition, because it gets to the core of the issue without calling up gender politics.
Is it purely hatred? Or is part of it attraction that can't be reciprocated without force.

I know someone who had someone who basically stalked this person for months. Thought they were madly in love with this person. They kept asking my friend out without any avail. It got to the point where every night we went out to the bars this person showed and was there hitting on my friend. Got to be kind of a sad joke. One night this person slipped something into my friends drink and raped my friend.

My friend was a guy. He basically went missing for days he was mortified and didn't know what to do. He didn't know how to explain this to anyone and didn't think anyone would believe him. He finally returned another one of our friends phone calls and told him all about it. He was scared. He really couldn't figure it out himself. He didn't remember everything but he woke up in the middle of the act and couldn't explain how he was erect and unconcious at the same time.

As you can imagine this is a hard story for many to believe, but the cops said it happens more than you think it's just that it is hard to explain and many go unreported. Luckily he still had the drug in his system and our testimony as to her crazy stalking adventures.

I agree that most rape comes from a place that's not attraction but something entirely different. But does some come from such a distorted reality such as this?

Just curious as to what people think.
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Old 01-11-2005, 03:16 PM   #42
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Well distorted reality, stalking, etc - I think rape is still always an act of the ultimate betrayal.

Obviously you can have an attraction and lust for someone, but if they don't reciprocate that, most humans will accept that and try to move on. Maybe some people just can't take the ego blow, or they're just psychotic, sociopathic, etc.

I've never heard of a case like that, well I've heard of roofies, but that's just unbelievable. It is a scary world
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Old 02-21-2005, 12:47 AM   #43
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hello, I am in So Cali and rape in L.A is considered a sexually act not a violent one. That just bogs my mind to hear that and people actually believe it. Rape is an act of complete violence to me. Any type of hitting and raping is an act of violence. So to say it is just a sexual act, I guess it is not violent towards the woman or man who is the victim. That makes it sound like it is ok and that the perpetrator will get off with less time and to be considered not as serious.
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Old 02-22-2005, 07:30 AM   #44
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One of my best friends from college was date-raped. She had a child as a result. And because the laws being as vague as they are, she was too afraid to go to court because if she couldn't prove that it was rape, then the father would have legal rights to her child, something that she couldn't even consider. So she's a single mother, living with minimal income and no welfare from the state because she refuses to name the father of her child. Rape changed the course of her entire life and there is no justice for her.
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Old 02-22-2005, 07:38 AM   #45
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