ntalwar
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butter7 said:
The way it's described, it's sort of like North Koreans trying to overthrow the regime from within. It sounds virtually impossible to me.
Let's Talk About CUBA Baby!!!!
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The way it's described, it's sort of like North Koreans trying to overthrow the regime from within. It sounds virtually impossible to me.
butter7
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Are we really doing here to work out a logic solution?
May be just as much as some of you don't get my logic, I felt some of the logic here weird too. People care about other people's life is a great thing, but what's gonna happen after Castro die? Who knows? Can we do anything about it?
I guess, no.
I just smelled "liberate Cuba, free the people" in some of the posts, and that made me worry.
May be just as much as some of you don't get my logic, I felt some of the logic here weird too. People care about other people's life is a great thing, but what's gonna happen after Castro die? Who knows? Can we do anything about it?
I guess, no.
I just smelled "liberate Cuba, free the people" in some of the posts, and that made me worry.
butter7
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martha said:^
Again, you don't know what you're talking about, by your own admission, but you feel comfortable making judgements and providing solutions that have no basis in facts. Life is easy for you, isn't it?
Seems you know me very well. Could you explain what I was talking about, since you always helped me with explaining things, could you kindly give me a hand again?
only j/k.
Tiger Edge
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ntalwar said:
Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
A_Wanderer
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North Korea is the extreme, Cuba is not the DPRK - which bears more than a passing resemblance to Oceania which was inspired by Stalinism - the circle of totalitarianismntalwar said:
Tiger Edge
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/cuba/story/0,,1835930,00.html
Everything has been tried before.
Even so, killing him isn't the problem. He'll have to die eventually (although my grandmother swears he's already dead ) and all the power will just transfer to another asshole.
Everything has been tried before.
Even so, killing him isn't the problem. He'll have to die eventually (although my grandmother swears he's already dead
) and all the power will just transfer to another asshole.
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
butter7 said:
Seems you know me very well. Could you explain what I was talking about, since you always helped me with explaining things, could you kindly give me a hand again?
only j/k.
No. I think I'm done with you. You have all the answers.
PlaTheGreat said:
(although my grandmother swears he's already dead
I swear I think this is like Weekend at Bernie's...they trot out the corpse when they need it.
But I do believe change is coming. Nothing lasts forever - time waits for no man. This regime will end as well, as all the others around the world have eventually. Cuba is not different than the former Soviet bloc, etc. It is a matter of time.
Queen Bee
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anitram said:
CTU2fan
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I've always understood that generally speaking, those folks who had it best under the pre-Castro regime (Batista? My Cuban history is rusty) are the ones who lost out after the revolution. When I hear stories of how they lost everything that sort of confirms it...the people who supported Castro (peasants etc) had nothing to lose. For them, Castro's government must be an improvement, no? Honestly, how "free" was Cuba before Castro?
It would seem likely to me that those who do stay in Cuba and profess their support for Castro are probably telling the truth, and not just covering their asses. Not sure why it's so hard for people to believe that communism can look like a good thing to poor people. Of course I haven't lived in Cuba, and I wasn't even alive during the time before Castro, so I don't know for sure...but then again, neither does anyone else here in this thread except maybe for rose & Pla.
It would seem likely to me that those who do stay in Cuba and profess their support for Castro are probably telling the truth, and not just covering their asses. Not sure why it's so hard for people to believe that communism can look like a good thing to poor people. Of course I haven't lived in Cuba, and I wasn't even alive during the time before Castro, so I don't know for sure...but then again, neither does anyone else here in this thread except maybe for rose & Pla.
When I was in Cuba I wanted to go on a tour of the Capitol and some other things and was taken by a Cuban guy (he was HOTT) who spoke with a flawless American accent. I asked him where he'd learned his English and he said he was actually Canadian born, and did his PhD on the subject of Cuban foreign relations, so he spent a lot of time in Cuba, met his wife and moved back there and now worked as a guide. He said you could make decent money this way because tourists would always tip him well and always in foreign currency.
He was an interesting person to talk to because he was very well aware of all that is wrong with Cuba. He said immediately, "you know all the problems we have" and I found that he spoke very frankly. That said, while he didn't push the Communist line, he also wasn't as negative as some of the comments on this thread. And he was extremely critical of Cuban diaspora, stating that they haven't been to Cuba in decades and have no idea what day to day life is really like. I remember him also saying a few things re: Elian Gonzales which I completely agreed with. I think that reflected terribly on the Cuban American community. Are we in the business of ripping children away from parents who love them and provide as best for them as they know how because we don't believe in the political process of the country? That is an absolute outrage. That we would pass judgment on these people - what's next, we'll be ripping African children out of the arms of their loving parents because they live in corrupt states like say, Zimbabwe? The whole thing was absolutely outrageous.
He was an interesting person to talk to because he was very well aware of all that is wrong with Cuba. He said immediately, "you know all the problems we have" and I found that he spoke very frankly. That said, while he didn't push the Communist line, he also wasn't as negative as some of the comments on this thread. And he was extremely critical of Cuban diaspora, stating that they haven't been to Cuba in decades and have no idea what day to day life is really like. I remember him also saying a few things re: Elian Gonzales which I completely agreed with. I think that reflected terribly on the Cuban American community. Are we in the business of ripping children away from parents who love them and provide as best for them as they know how because we don't believe in the political process of the country? That is an absolute outrage. That we would pass judgment on these people - what's next, we'll be ripping African children out of the arms of their loving parents because they live in corrupt states like say, Zimbabwe? The whole thing was absolutely outrageous.
ntalwar
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anitram said:
"Problems" sounds like a euphemism. A lack of basic freedoms is a lot more than a problem. From what I've read, Cuba doesn't allow private property ownership or free enterprise, and tourism has one of the highest salaries supposedly. Jamaica actually ranks ahead of Cuba in per capita income.
Tiger Edge
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I don't live in a Cuban neighborhood, so my family wasn't all that into the Elian situation. I do remember the morning that the Feds so ceremoniously stormed the house my dad woke me and my brother to say how sick the whole thing was. And he didn't just mean the removal, he meant everything. It's under my opinion that a few hundred radicals (and the politicians who were playing this game of chess) were the ones who caused all the controversy, and not so much the entire Cuban American community, as you'd believe.
On the other hand, we did all stay home from school and work that Tuesday when a city-wide blackout was proclaimed, but that was because it was an accepted free day.
I remember another large protest going on near my grandparents' house in Little Havana. We ended up piling in the car to basically mock the protesters, shouting out funny slogans in Spanish as we honked the horn. I don't remember anyone who was so firmly rooted in keeping him here. It's none of our business and everyone made that kid to be a pawn in some sick little war.
In the end, I think you'd find a lot more people who were genuinely there to be there in support of anti-Castro sentiments, and not really there for Elian motivated issues.
I thank you for bringing the Elian issue up, however, because it does shine another light on why the dominant Cuban exile groups hate Democrats so much.
Example:
"Fidel, this is your house."
IMO, he would have had a much better life in the United States. But the way his "family" here in the U.S. was toting him around as a pawn, taking him to Disney World, and coaching him on what to say didn't do him any favors.
On another subject:
I'd like to introduce the "wet-foot, dry-foot policy" in this thread and see if anyone else is aware of it and what your opinions you might have on it.
I personally think it's disgusting and it only encourages rafters from crossing the shores. But I guess if people are that desperate to leave the country that they are willing to risk their lives on it (and whatever freedom they had left if they are caught by police) then it says something awful about Cuba. Much more than anyone would tell you on the streets. Just saying...
All my family got here legally, FYI.
On the other hand, we did all stay home from school and work that Tuesday when a city-wide blackout was proclaimed, but that was because it was an accepted free day.
I remember another large protest going on near my grandparents' house in Little Havana. We ended up piling in the car to basically mock the protesters, shouting out funny slogans in Spanish as we honked the horn. I don't remember anyone who was so firmly rooted in keeping him here. It's none of our business and everyone made that kid to be a pawn in some sick little war.
In the end, I think you'd find a lot more people who were genuinely there to be there in support of anti-Castro sentiments, and not really there for Elian motivated issues.
I thank you for bringing the Elian issue up, however, because it does shine another light on why the dominant Cuban exile groups hate Democrats so much.
Example:
"Fidel, this is your house."
IMO, he would have had a much better life in the United States. But the way his "family" here in the U.S. was toting him around as a pawn, taking him to Disney World, and coaching him on what to say didn't do him any favors.
On another subject:
I'd like to introduce the "wet-foot, dry-foot policy" in this thread and see if anyone else is aware of it and what your opinions you might have on it.
I personally think it's disgusting and it only encourages rafters from crossing the shores. But I guess if people are that desperate to leave the country that they are willing to risk their lives on it (and whatever freedom they had left if they are caught by police) then it says something awful about Cuba. Much more than anyone would tell you on the streets. Just saying...
All my family got here legally, FYI.
all_i_want
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after going to china and vietnam, cuba will be the next socialist-communist paradise to visit on my list
ntalwar
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PlaTheGreat said:
Perhaps it encourages them a bit, but it doesn't apply to Haitans and many still try to migrate in boats. Permanent residency also doesn't apply to people from other countries, yet it doesn't seem to be much of a deterrence.
Tiger Edge
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ntalwar said:
The Hatian topic is something that's really touchy around here. I'd think that the fact that the wet-foot dry-foot policy exists in this first place gives the Hatian people hope. If we were to flat out deny anyone from arriving here on a makeshift raft, it wouldn't be so much of an option.
Interesting site I came upon today: http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/cubapuzzle/index.html
Be sure to click on the puzzle pieces to check out the videos. It feels pretty balanced to me, showing the supporters of Castro in the country. But of course, those dissenters have to hide behind the lens to protect themselves.
Caroni
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all_i_want said:after going to china and vietnam, cuba will be the next socialist-communist paradise to visit on my list
How can you Forget my comunist pardise Venezuela!!!!
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